Originally Posted by RJHD

Understood. I wasn't in "pro" mode and couldn't find the VE tables. Found them and the results are above. Is it possible (or really neccessary) to get ALL cells below 3-5% difference from the previous tune?

Originally Posted by shooter5074

Number 8..... just cycle the kill switch..... that way you don't have to wait for the PV to boot back up. If you don't turn off the ignition the PV won't shut off.

Originally Posted by Delta

That's what I was trying to say. Maybe I should take a course on brevity

Originally Posted by Watchfuliz

StailJim, I used your afr map for my trip out west. I ran several logs while on the trip, mountains, high speed interstate, loaded, and high temps. I never heard any pinging, but the logs showed some knock retard events.

Some you won't hear. Some minor pings won't be audible.

Mostly on the rear which is just the opposite of what happens around home or was before the heat moved in. My engine temp varied depending on condition, but ran between 256 - 270 most of the time. It did get up to 330 looking for a place to park in the bottom of Zion for 30 minutes, but cooled back to 270 on the ride back out.

My mpg was +/- .2 of the other riders with like bikes with me being consistently lower than the 110 CVO and even or up to .5 more than the 2013 RG with the same cams as mine. So I feel the fuel is pretty much right.

Looking at the logs, knock retards were a few 6* or less on the front and one 8* pull on the rear, but mostly 6* or less. There was not many of these total, but they were all interstate 70 80 mph loaded with headwind. High load riding. One such occasion happened when accelerating in 3rd gear. Also I seem to notice a lot of vibration in the bike when I got around 75 mph or above. I remember you saying something about timing causing that too.

Also I noticed the CLI was only changing when in the small closed loop area of the map. So am I right in assuming that CLI only works in CL? When it did change it was mostly 5% or less.

Yes it only works in CL. When in open loop it will show 100%.

I ran LT on my map when I got home using those logs, but I have not run the new map yet as I don't think the timing it pulled is correct. Front cyl had 6.5* pulled in 4K @ 70,80 kpa cells 2*&3* in the 3500 cells same kpa.

That may be the same event. It started pulling at 3500. Sensed it didn't pull enough and at 4000 contimued to pull timing. Thats exactly what it's supposed to do. So I'd start looking for a problem at the 3500 area. It doesn't sound like it's temp related if you were running 256/260 and even 270. Those temps are fine for 2 up and loaded.

Rear had 4*&2* in 60,70kpa 4K rpm with 1.8* to 2.1* being pulled in the cells above those. There was smaller changes in surrounding cells as well. Plus a weird pull in 20kpa cell @3500rpm of 3.5* on the rear and 2.3* on the front.

I wouldn't worry too much about whats happening in the 20 kPa column. It's decel and a no load area, for the most part. You can yank a bunch of timing out there and not feel it.

I am not sure what all that means. I am not sure I should run that map at all. Like I said, I never heard any pinging, but I don't hear well anyway.

What do you think? Try it, don't try it, mod it in the one lone cell that has a weird change to it? I just don't know where to go from here.

Have you been running an AT or 2 AFTER the timing changes? Timing will affect the VE's somewhat so it's always good to do a quick AT run after making timing changes. I wouldn't do a complete run but I would hit all the areas surrounding the timing changes, both up and down and left and right.

What timing numbers are you showing in the areas where the log shows events?

Thanks.

Originally Posted by SquidHead

stailjim61: I followed your advice during a couple commutes this week by bumping up the timing 2* across the 30-70 KPa, then data logged, ran those through Log Tuner and applied the changes, which were all again less than 1*.

Assuming I'm happy with the map at this point, should I then remove the 2* of timing I added in addition to the timing LT already removed...or just remove the 2* from the cells that had no knock events?

Next question, since I had very few knock events, and only on the rear, do you recommend, bumping up the timing an additional 2* (total of 4*) and repeat the process?

Thanks again for all your help.

Originally Posted by Delta

These numbers change when in closed loop. The way it was explained to me was to think of AFF as long term changes and CLI as short term adjustments to your fuel trims. This is how the ECM learns. Ideally the values should only change + or - 5% on a well tuned bike. These values are always changing based on the targeted value the ECM is trying to maintain. When I accelerate or decelerate the change will be outside the 5% for an instant as the ECM attempts to catch up. If for example you see 107, it means the motor needs more fuel (107%) of what was required at that specific point in time for the rpm, map, to meet the AFR/Lamda for that VE. A figure less then 100 means less fuel is required.

I probably didn't explain it correctly, but it works in my mind.

Originally Posted by cbrown@woods.net

Anyone else done more than a little AT spread across a wide temp range? Say 35F - 90F?

Have noticed here that _peak_ VE (highest 3 - 5 cells) tends to be 5 - 8% lower at < 40F than it is above 80%,

and that (centered on around 65F) the pattern stays the same, but the main hump tend to shift a cell or 2 up/left on the cold side and down/right on the hot side.

Originally Posted by RJHD

Hey, thanks for your patience.

Read through those and did as you suggested. I've got around 12 boxes that are over 3.0% delta on the front cylinder and 15 on the rear cylinder.

Most are over 15% throttle position. Does this mean, as I continue to run auto tunes, I should try and run with the throttle open more than 15%?

And if so, any tips on how to get off a speeding ticket when I get pulled over?..lol