Power Vision Information Thread
Cruiser
Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 222
Likes: 1
From: Massachusetts
Well,
The rain has disappeared for a little and I was able to get in some riding. After 4 tanks the MPG on the PV is about 25 % optimistic and consistent.
I guess we will wait and see what changes will be made.
The rain has disappeared for a little and I was able to get in some riding. After 4 tanks the MPG on the PV is about 25 % optimistic and consistent.
I guess we will wait and see what changes will be made.
Advanced
Joined: May 2010
Posts: 73
Likes: 0
From: Alberta, Canada
Trim Question
I think you have the process pretty will nailed down... One thing you didn't mention is resetting the trim data prior to creating log files. If I understand this correctly, you want to delete this data so that the ECM doesn't apply the settings from the adaptive control while you're gathering data. You want the logs to be gathered while the ECM is using the exact same settings as what is contained in the value files.
3. Mount the Power Vision on your bike. go to Datalog/Assign Signals and configure your Power Vision to datalog the following channels:
MAP (Manifold Absolute Pressure)
TP (Throttle Position)
Engine Temp
Engine Speed (RPM)
Accel Enrichment
Desired/Set AFR (if you have an AFR based fuel table) OR
Desired/Set Lambda (if you have a Lambda based fuel table)
Warmup AFR (for AFR calibrations) OR
Warmup Lambda (for Lambda calibrations)
Spark Knock Front
Spark Knock Rear
4. Datalog with the Power Vision. Start the bike go to Datalog/Gauges and press start log. Ride the bike as normal, trying to vary the load and RPM as much as possible. It may be helpful to use the PV to display helpful channels for visual reference such as MAP, Engine temp, Throttle position, and Knock retard, make sure to press end log before you shut the motor off
MAP (Manifold Absolute Pressure)
TP (Throttle Position)
Engine Temp
Engine Speed (RPM)
Accel Enrichment
Desired/Set AFR (if you have an AFR based fuel table) OR
Desired/Set Lambda (if you have a Lambda based fuel table)
Warmup AFR (for AFR calibrations) OR
Warmup Lambda (for Lambda calibrations)
Spark Knock Front
Spark Knock Rear
4. Datalog with the Power Vision. Start the bike go to Datalog/Gauges and press start log. Ride the bike as normal, trying to vary the load and RPM as much as possible. It may be helpful to use the PV to display helpful channels for visual reference such as MAP, Engine temp, Throttle position, and Knock retard, make sure to press end log before you shut the motor off
Ed
Cruiser
Joined: Jan 2011
Posts: 125
Likes: 0
From: Rowlett, TX
Close, but you are not fooling the ecm. The clb tables set the switch point of the o2 sensor. If you set your clb's to 700, any voltage higher indicates rich and anything lower indicates lean. If the logtuner reduces your ve number it is because it saw a higher voltage(richer) than you have asked for on your clb table. The 14.6 you see on your afr table is just a switch that turns on "closed loop".
Interesting... So, are you saying that no matter what the values in the CLB tables, that the ECM reads the actual AFR? And that basically it richens the mixture until the sensors report that the voltage has risen to the value in the CLB table (or leans it, I suppose, if the sensors are reading higher than the table value)?
Thanks,
Art
Stellar HDF Member
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 2,459
Likes: 674
From: Vancouver Island B.C.
The ecm reads the voltage from the o2. If your clb is 700 and the ecm sees 750 mv it will reduce fuel. If it sees 650 it will add fuel. The o2 voltage should "toggle" either side of your clb setting. This is what keeps the cat clean.
Cruiser
Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 124
Likes: 0
From: Morganton, NC
It was mentioned above that one should trim data prior to creating log files. I just wanted to make sure that I understand correctly. This would happen between Step #3 and Step #4 of Jamie's quick instructions below, right? What are any others opinions, do you do it regularly?
Thanks
Ed
Thanks
Ed
Cruiser
Joined: Jan 2011
Posts: 125
Likes: 0
From: Rowlett, TX
So, is this an accurate statement? - You're saying that the ECM never forgets that 450mv is 14.6, but it dumps extra fuel into the mix anyway based upon the numbers we have in the CLB table?
Outstanding HDF Member
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 2,598
Likes: 19
From: Naples FL / Pine TWP PA
Tuning progress:
VE tune went very well. Two runs and it was locked in.
Front cylinder timing went very well and it was locked in (this was done with two diferent timing maps).
Rear cylinder timing, big sigh: The initial base map for my build was was way off. After nine 25 minute runs I jumped ship and grabbed the timing from the TC96 SE255 timing map. It is much closer to where I need to be than the auto generated map for the 103, with SE255. First run timing set up perfectly on the front cylinder. The rear cylinder also adjusted. Took it for a run, better just the slightest pinging in the rear cylinder and I'm hunting for the pinging with the throttle. Third run, I no longer hear any pinging but the knock retard shows I still have some on the rear cylinder. Creating a map again...It's clear to me this works but the timing adjustments are so small that you can spend days and tons of gas getting the thing dialed in.
VE tune went very well. Two runs and it was locked in.
Front cylinder timing went very well and it was locked in (this was done with two diferent timing maps).
Rear cylinder timing, big sigh: The initial base map for my build was was way off. After nine 25 minute runs I jumped ship and grabbed the timing from the TC96 SE255 timing map. It is much closer to where I need to be than the auto generated map for the 103, with SE255. First run timing set up perfectly on the front cylinder. The rear cylinder also adjusted. Took it for a run, better just the slightest pinging in the rear cylinder and I'm hunting for the pinging with the throttle. Third run, I no longer hear any pinging but the knock retard shows I still have some on the rear cylinder. Creating a map again...It's clear to me this works but the timing adjustments are so small that you can spend days and tons of gas getting the thing dialed in.
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Outstanding HDF Member
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 2,598
Likes: 19
From: Naples FL / Pine TWP PA
A question or two about closed loop Bias values.
Jamie, you are currently setting the bias in closed loop to 700mv. The works out to an AFR of: 14.63 assuming 14.6 on the AFR map is really 14.68. On another map I have (TC96) you have the the bias voltage set to 778 which works out to 14.45, assuming the AFR 14.6 is really 14.68. So my question is can I increase the bias voltage a bit more to get the running temperature down some. Currently sitting in traffic, stop and go I'm building a lot of heat fairly quick. With an out side air temp of about 72F, five minutes at a stop light yielded an engine temp of 302. I'm thinking on a hot day this is going to be a bugger. Also my running temp down the Interstate is running between 260 and 280F.
Jamie, you are currently setting the bias in closed loop to 700mv. The works out to an AFR of: 14.63 assuming 14.6 on the AFR map is really 14.68. On another map I have (TC96) you have the the bias voltage set to 778 which works out to 14.45, assuming the AFR 14.6 is really 14.68. So my question is can I increase the bias voltage a bit more to get the running temperature down some. Currently sitting in traffic, stop and go I'm building a lot of heat fairly quick. With an out side air temp of about 72F, five minutes at a stop light yielded an engine temp of 302. I'm thinking on a hot day this is going to be a bugger. Also my running temp down the Interstate is running between 260 and 280F.
It was mentioned above that one should trim data prior to creating log files. I just wanted to make sure that I understand correctly. This would happen between Step #3 and Step #4 of Jamie's quick instructions below, right? What are any others opinions, do you do it regularly?
Thanks
Ed
Thanks
Ed
__________________
Jamie Long / Fuel Moto USA
The USA's Leader V-Twin EFI & Performance www.fuelmotousa.com
Contact 920-423-3309
Email jamie@fuelmotousa.com
Jamie Long / Fuel Moto USA
The USA's Leader V-Twin EFI & Performance www.fuelmotousa.com
Contact 920-423-3309
Email jamie@fuelmotousa.com