Power Vision Information Thread
Novice
Joined: May 2011
Posts: 21
Likes: 0
Go to the FM website, half way down the page you will find the software and manual.
http://www.fuelmotousa.com/powervision.htm
Once you get the software running and have read jamie's instructions (3 post back) and the manual that should answer all your questions.
http://www.fuelmotousa.com/powervision.htm
Once you get the software running and have read jamie's instructions (3 post back) and the manual that should answer all your questions.
Last edited by Harleyhiker; Jun 2, 2011 at 06:58 AM.
6th Gear
Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 10
Likes: 1
From: Rapid City, SD
How many times are you Logging and Tuning?
I am running the SE/Air Cleaner with S & S Power Duals, S & S SPO Mufflers.
Using the stock narrow band O2 sensors.
How many times are you running the Log and then the PV Tuner Software? I have done it twice and really noticed improvement.
I am surprised how the VE tables look. It is not at all what I expected. I thought I would see a linear increase in the numbers, but that is not the case at all.
Using the stock narrow band O2 sensors.
How many times are you running the Log and then the PV Tuner Software? I have done it twice and really noticed improvement.
I am surprised how the VE tables look. It is not at all what I expected. I thought I would see a linear increase in the numbers, but that is not the case at all.
Cruiser
Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 124
Likes: 0
From: Morganton, NC
What tune did you use for an initial start? Stock tune or something from Jamie?
Thread Starter
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Extreme HDF Member
Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 11,615
Likes: 50
From: Baton Rouge, LA
To a very limited extent he calculates how the cam profile breathes as well as a few other new parameters to set up the base file. Once that is done you have built the base calibration then you go into tuning mode. My tuner was last updated with MT6 calibrations so I really have not played with it for a long time. I have just been reading and had a few discussions with Steve Cole, the brain behind TTS.
Outstanding HDF Member
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 2,598
Likes: 19
From: Naples FL / Pine TWP PA
Steve is going to hype his product and does, but I still don't see how you can tune beyond the closed-loop area when there is no feedback (sampling). It just seems like smoke and mirrors, and any efforts along those lines would appear to be guesswork. There's nothing wrong with that as long as it is represented as such, not as a way to get a truly accurate tune. With the AT-100 Basic, using the same stock sensors, it is represented as a way to tune 2/3 of the range, which is realistic, and at least the PV has the Pro version that can sample throughout the operating range. Just my 2˘.
Outstanding HDF Member
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 2,598
Likes: 19
From: Naples FL / Pine TWP PA
I'm running the same logging. The only thing that is still adjusting is rear cylinder timing. I'm on run 8. Really why this is taking so long is log tuner is very conservative about pulling timing out. What I really wish it had was an aggressive mode that pulled a lot of timing out then when the timing is clean it allowed you to step forward in the adjusted cells until you reach ideal timing settings. This should be doable by a simple comparrison and divide by two. Clean here, bad here - split the two down the middle, and keep going until you have achieved the ideal maximum timing without causing pre-detonation.
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Extreme HDF Member
Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 11,615
Likes: 50
From: Baton Rouge, LA
Well Jamie kind of hinted at it. If you tune for VE across the board the AFRs become quite accurate when not in closed loop mode so you tune the VE then set your open loop AFRs. The math behind how these motors breath is just a calculation. It's a pretty good assumption that X AFR will yield the best torque, HP, or fuel economy so it's really not out there all that far. Steve Cole says the wide band sensors used by several vendors including DJ are not very accurate (YMMV). He tested them extensively and concluded that they were not accurate enough to develop a product around. He gave me a lengthy explanation about what the sensors were designed for and how he tested them. Some of it went a little over my head, but I got enough out of the discussion to believe he wasn't blowing smoke up my rear.
Steve's setup is very NB-oriented, and without some sort of additional controlling module that can translate the WB data into a log file, as is the case with the PV, it simply isn't workable (AFAIK). If it isn't practical or workable with TTS he would have an interest in denigrating WB sensors, which he does constantly without giving any evidence (that I've seen), and without it I would have to assume this is what he's trying to do. If you know of any such evidence please let me know, as I'm eager to learn.
WB sensors are used in a wide variety of applications including race cars, OEM applications since 1994, and a number of aftermarket tuning kits. I can't imagine that any meaningful inaccuracy would be acceptable in the second application, as OEM's must meet emissions regs. Bosch is the industry leader in fuel-injection and O2 sensors, and I can't see them issuing false information about the accuracy or durability of their products. I did a Google search and couldn't find any reports on inaccuracy of the Bosch LSU4 WB sensors, and from my perspective so far the only such mention has been traceable to Steve Cole.
Last edited by iclick; Jun 2, 2011 at 02:16 PM.
Outstanding HDF Member
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 2,598
Likes: 19
From: Naples FL / Pine TWP PA
Hey you don't have to convince me. I'm just passing along what I was told. I know enough about this stuff to be really dangerous and not an expert. The one thing I will say is there are plenty of very happy TTS users and that has to count for something.
Last edited by FX4; Jun 2, 2011 at 01:15 PM.