Power Vision Information Thread
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Joined: May 2011
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Yes I know the products have different age, but their are key things missing from the PV manuals that will help you get a more accurate log tune. One example is that TTS recommends you zero out the Acceleration Enrichment before running Vtune..They say it gives you a more accurate tune. Now maybe the dynojet software takes that into consideration or is it just not documented? Who knows.. But the point is, it wouldn't take much for dynojet to bring up the level of documentation to something close. Keep in mind, Dynojet is the expect here, not TTS.. and the hardware works great (as you said) so all us users are asking is for someone to document it. Before rebutting, read the TTS manual and see the level of detail that is missing. The different is huge, a lot more than just putting a laptop in your saddle bag. My goal is to tune my bike, and to do it SAFELY for the motors sake.
Last edited by Harleyhiker; Jun 1, 2011 at 11:18 AM.
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Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 2,598
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From: Naples FL / Pine TWP PA
I don't think that is what he was saying. I am not going to post the link, but you can google search for the TTS Mastertune Manual and VTune manual. Once you read them, you will see ALL of what is missing and what he is talking about. The level of detail is not even close.
Yes I know the products have different age, but their are key things missing from the PV manuals that will help you get a more accurate log tune. One example is that TTS recommends you zero out the Acceleration Enrichment before running Vtune..They say it gives you a more accurate tune. Now maybe the dynojet software takes that into consideration or is it just not documented? Who knows.. But the point is, it wouldn't take much for dynojet to bring up the level of documentation to something close. Keep in mind, Dynojet is the expect here, not TTS.. and the hardware works great (as you said) so all us users are asking is for someone to document it. Before rebutting, read the TTS manual and see the level of detail that is missing. The different is huge, a lot more than just putting a laptop in your saddle bag. My goal is to tune my bike, and to do it SAFELY for the motors sake.
Yes I know the products have different age, but their are key things missing from the PV manuals that will help you get a more accurate log tune. One example is that TTS recommends you zero out the Acceleration Enrichment before running Vtune..They say it gives you a more accurate tune. Now maybe the dynojet software takes that into consideration or is it just not documented? Who knows.. But the point is, it wouldn't take much for dynojet to bring up the level of documentation to something close. Keep in mind, Dynojet is the expect here, not TTS.. and the hardware works great (as you said) so all us users are asking is for someone to document it. Before rebutting, read the TTS manual and see the level of detail that is missing. The different is huge, a lot more than just putting a laptop in your saddle bag. My goal is to tune my bike, and to do it SAFELY for the motors sake.
PV Log tuner Basic will cover 2/3 of your calibration, this is a limitation of the sensors and the Delphi system, not Power Vision. We have been using PV Log Tuner all thru all of its development and have found that it works very, very well. To cover some of the other comments, Acc enrichment does not need to be turned off as PV Log tuner invalidates data when acc enrichement is active. Dynojet is working on better manuals, documentation, and getting more and more features released which will only get better and better. Being someone that has been in the tuning industry for a long time and having tuned thousands of bikes I can certainly say this is step forward.
__________________
Jamie Long / Fuel Moto USA
The USA's Leader V-Twin EFI & Performance www.fuelmotousa.com
Contact 920-423-3309
Email jamie@fuelmotousa.com
Jamie Long / Fuel Moto USA
The USA's Leader V-Twin EFI & Performance www.fuelmotousa.com
Contact 920-423-3309
Email jamie@fuelmotousa.com
Thread Starter
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Extreme HDF Member
Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 11,615
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From: Baton Rouge, LA
I don't think that is what he was saying. I am not going to post the link, but you can google search for the TTS Mastertune Manual and VTune manual. Once you read them, you will see ALL of what is missing and what he is talking about. The level of detail is not even close.
One example is that TTS recommends you zero out the Acceleration Enrichment before running Vtune..They say it gives you a more accurate tune. Now maybe the dynojet software takes that into consideration or is it just not documented?
I hope this thread doesn't turn into an arena for high-tech religious fervor. My thrust in starting it was to exchange ideas on how to make the PV experience a better one for all owners, not a doctrinal battleground for comparing one turner vs. another.
Last edited by iclick; Jun 1, 2011 at 03:32 PM.
Outstanding HDF Member
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 2,598
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From: Naples FL / Pine TWP PA
Jamie you are a big part of why I purchased this unit. Your reputation for support and tuning is second to none. I think if it had been a stand alone unit without support from you I would not have touched it. I will say one thing though, TTS MT8 calibrations accomplish a complete tune using the narrow band sensors. TTS has a complete system that when you are finished, you have a fully tuned bike that does not rely on other calibrations or add on sensors. As far as I can tell, the Vision with proper documentation and support from DJ should accomplish the same objective. No it's not autotune, but it does result in a well tuned bike.
Me too. When I purchased the PV, I was under the impression it would at least be equal to the TTS and SEPST if not more advanced. Had I known that the AT basic/logtuner/WinPV software would only be able to tune such a small portion of the map I would have purchased one of the other tuners.
It's not like the TTS and SEPST are brand new technology, they have been out for years. I can't believe DJ would put out a "Revolutionary" new tuner/software program that aren't even set up to perform the basic functions that the "Old" tuners already on the market can. Bummer.
It's not like the TTS and SEPST are brand new technology, they have been out for years. I can't believe DJ would put out a "Revolutionary" new tuner/software program that aren't even set up to perform the basic functions that the "Old" tuners already on the market can. Bummer.
As noted earlier the area you are able to tune with the factory O2 sensors is a limitation of the narrowband O2 sensors i.e you are not able to tune a mixture such as WOT where you are looking for 13.0:1 when the sensors themselves can only switch from 14.3-15.0:1. You are however able to tune approx 2/3 of your VE tables where you are referencing a mixture +/- .5 stoich. You can also use the AT Wideband module which will populate the entire table to any AFR you desire.
Outstanding HDF Member
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 2,598
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From: Naples FL / Pine TWP PA
BTW: Just so nobody thinks I am picking on the DJ Vision, I had the same discussion with Steve Cole about what the Vision does better than TTS. I want it all, and I want it now! ;-)
Thread Starter
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Extreme HDF Member
Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 11,615
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From: Baton Rouge, LA
Jamie you are a big part of why I purchased this unit. Your reputation for support and tuning is second to none. I think if it had been a stand alone unit without support from you I would not have touched it. I will say one thing though, TTS MT8 calibrations accomplish a complete tune using the narrow band sensors. TTS has a complete system that when you are finished, you have a fully tuned bike that does not rely on other calibrations or add on sensors. As far as I can tell, the Vision with proper documentation and support from DJ should accomplish the same objective. No it's not autotune, but it does result in a well tuned bike.
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Outstanding HDF Member
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 2,598
Likes: 19
From: Naples FL / Pine TWP PA
I know there has been much hoopla from the TTS faithful about the mysterious MT8 technology, but does anyone really understand how it works or even if it works? Could you or anyone else tell me how you can tune above 50% TP (or thereabouts) without any sort of feedback? The NB sensors don't function above that point, so how is the data retrieved? I'm not declaring that MT8 doesn't have some functional basis, but am asking you to or anyone else to explain it if it does exist.
Jamie you are a big part of why I purchased this unit. Your reputation for support and tuning is second to none. I think if it had been a stand alone unit without support from you I would not have touched it. I will say one thing though, TTS MT8 calibrations accomplish a complete tune using the narrow band sensors. TTS has a complete system that when you are finished, you have a fully tuned bike that does not rely on other calibrations or add on sensors. As far as I can tell, the Vision with proper documentation and support from DJ should accomplish the same objective. No it's not autotune, but it does result in a well tuned bike.