Power Vision Information Thread
Road Warrior
Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 1,274
Likes: 130
From: Now Western TN
I recently did a bunch of autotuning and recently I've been getting knocking whenever I get on it and get close to WOT. I could hear it as slight pings and the PV confirmed the front is doing it anytime I get close to WOT in a higher gear. The rear only does it about half as much. Perhaps I had a bad tank of gas but I doubt that.
Not really sure why this just started but I'm assuming it wouldn't have anything to do with the autotuning because it doesn't adjust spark advance. Is this correct?
The weather is pretty warm here right now, but this is a healthy engine with only 6500 miles, and I have always used premium fuel. One interesting thing I noticed is that it never knocked a single time while autotuning, and I actually pushed it hard for a few seconds to see if it would.
Gonna have a look at the spark plugs...
Not really sure why this just started but I'm assuming it wouldn't have anything to do with the autotuning because it doesn't adjust spark advance. Is this correct?
The weather is pretty warm here right now, but this is a healthy engine with only 6500 miles, and I have always used premium fuel. One interesting thing I noticed is that it never knocked a single time while autotuning, and I actually pushed it hard for a few seconds to see if it would.
Gonna have a look at the spark plugs...
Road Warrior
Joined: Jul 2013
Posts: 1,624
Likes: 13
From: Fort Worth
Interesting. I have never done the log but that's a good idea. I'm still wondering why it didn't ping during the AT session.
Also, I just checked my plugs and the electrode is white from heat, which is baffling considering my AFR table is pretty rich everywhere.
I attached my AFR table and VE tables in case anyone sees anything blatantly f-ed. The VEs seem messy from the AT sessions to me. Wondering if I should go back to the original tune dynojet sent me and start over.
Also, I just checked my plugs and the electrode is white from heat, which is baffling considering my AFR table is pretty rich everywhere.
I attached my AFR table and VE tables in case anyone sees anything blatantly f-ed. The VEs seem messy from the AT sessions to me. Wondering if I should go back to the original tune dynojet sent me and start over.
It's not as reliable to tune a FI bike based on the color of plugs as it was with a carb. I wouldn't put much, if any, weight to the color of your plugs.
You seem to be running rich, if not a little too rich according to your AFR table. Is your AFR table what Fuel Moto sent? I bet your fuel mileage is suffering.
When I did my tune, I think I did it like FX4, and only because it's how I learned to tune cars. Adjust your timing and advance as far as you can until you ping. You ahve to watch out for engine temps so be careful. Then, back it down a degree or two. I was lucky for timing as I had a buddy who had a full dyno and I was able to start with his timing maps and made very few adjustments.
You can then move on to VE and AFR. Make sure you keep an eye on detonation and eng temps. I always had the base FM tune on my PV so if I got stuck because of temps or detonation, I could load a known good map. Your VE should be pretty good based on your AT.
I would send you my map but I will be redoing it once I get my bike back from the shop. Sunday, I found out that my rear ACR valve was installed incorrect from the factory and I have had an exhaust leak from it from new and it got worse slowly over time until complete failure and loss of compression. I will bet that I will have changes to all aspects to my rear cylinder when I get it back.
6th Gear
Joined: Jun 2014
Posts: 11
Likes: 0
From: IA
Surging issues
Man there is soo much info here, hard to sort thru! I recently installed a 107" with tw-555's, v&h big radius 2-2, SE Heavy Breather, and Power Vision (basic). I have the map Jamie from Fuel Moto sent me and I'm just doing some tweaking using the auto tunes which I have done 3 30 min runs and my changes are under 5% change.
I'm struggling with a little bit of surging and an intermittent popping sound at steady throttle in 2nd & 3rd gear @ RPM ranges 2000-3200. Is this from reversion from my pipes? The bike runs great everywhere else and accelerates crazy fast and I have zero decel popping. I have changed my 14.6 values in the areas it was happening to AFR is 13.8 and I thought that helped but it still does it a little bit. Should I try 13.5 or am I just starting to waste gas?
My other concern is my temp. My engine temp ranges from 240-290 and my front head temp ranges from 280-345, (temp outside being 75-85ish)! Is this normal range or should I be concerned, specially with a cylinders bored to 107"?! I think I might have some pinging going on once I hit over 280 on the ET, but haven't confirmed that yet.
Any help would be greatly appreciated!
I'm struggling with a little bit of surging and an intermittent popping sound at steady throttle in 2nd & 3rd gear @ RPM ranges 2000-3200. Is this from reversion from my pipes? The bike runs great everywhere else and accelerates crazy fast and I have zero decel popping. I have changed my 14.6 values in the areas it was happening to AFR is 13.8 and I thought that helped but it still does it a little bit. Should I try 13.5 or am I just starting to waste gas?
My other concern is my temp. My engine temp ranges from 240-290 and my front head temp ranges from 280-345, (temp outside being 75-85ish)! Is this normal range or should I be concerned, specially with a cylinders bored to 107"?! I think I might have some pinging going on once I hit over 280 on the ET, but haven't confirmed that yet.
Any help would be greatly appreciated!
Road Master
Joined: Dec 2012
Posts: 848
Likes: 30
From: CO
The reason you did not ping is because in AT mode, the PV retards 4 degrees of timing.
It's not as reliable to tune a FI bike based on the color of plugs as it was with a carb. I wouldn't put much, if any, weight to the color of your plugs.
You seem to be running rich, if not a little too rich according to your AFR table. Is your AFR table what Fuel Moto sent? I bet your fuel mileage is suffering.
When I did my tune, I think I did it like FX4, and only because it's how I learned to tune cars. Adjust your timing and advance as far as you can until you ping. You ahve to watch out for engine temps so be careful. Then, back it down a degree or two. I was lucky for timing as I had a buddy who had a full dyno and I was able to start with his timing maps and made very few adjustments.
You can then move on to VE and AFR. Make sure you keep an eye on detonation and eng temps. I always had the base FM tune on my PV so if I got stuck because of temps or detonation, I could load a known good map. Your VE should be pretty good based on your AT.
I would send you my map but I will be redoing it once I get my bike back from the shop. Sunday, I found out that my rear ACR valve was installed incorrect from the factory and I have had an exhaust leak from it from new and it got worse slowly over time until complete failure and loss of compression. I will bet that I will have changes to all aspects to my rear cylinder when I get it back.
It's not as reliable to tune a FI bike based on the color of plugs as it was with a carb. I wouldn't put much, if any, weight to the color of your plugs.
You seem to be running rich, if not a little too rich according to your AFR table. Is your AFR table what Fuel Moto sent? I bet your fuel mileage is suffering.
When I did my tune, I think I did it like FX4, and only because it's how I learned to tune cars. Adjust your timing and advance as far as you can until you ping. You ahve to watch out for engine temps so be careful. Then, back it down a degree or two. I was lucky for timing as I had a buddy who had a full dyno and I was able to start with his timing maps and made very few adjustments.
You can then move on to VE and AFR. Make sure you keep an eye on detonation and eng temps. I always had the base FM tune on my PV so if I got stuck because of temps or detonation, I could load a known good map. Your VE should be pretty good based on your AT.
I would send you my map but I will be redoing it once I get my bike back from the shop. Sunday, I found out that my rear ACR valve was installed incorrect from the factory and I have had an exhaust leak from it from new and it got worse slowly over time until complete failure and loss of compression. I will bet that I will have changes to all aspects to my rear cylinder when I get it back.
And given what my spark plugs look like I can't imagine that I'm too rich. Regardless, I live in Texas and have to err towards too rich if I have any hopes of keeping my temp down.
Road Warrior
Joined: Jul 2013
Posts: 1,624
Likes: 13
From: Fort Worth
I was under the impression that you usually start with AFR/VE tuning and then do spark, reason being that running lean could raise temps enough to lead to preignition/detonation. I actually didn't get my base map from FM, I got it straight from Dynojet. But I'm thinking I should try one from FM instead.
And given what my spark plugs look like I can't imagine that I'm too rich. Regardless, I live in Texas and have to err towards too rich if I have any hopes of keeping my temp down.
And given what my spark plugs look like I can't imagine that I'm too rich. Regardless, I live in Texas and have to err towards too rich if I have any hopes of keeping my temp down.
I am by no means an expert or even try to be one. I have spent countless hours playing and trying to get mine just right and have made mistakes along the way. My VE was started by the AT and I just tweaked it a little. Mainly, I did this mpore as a trail to see what happens than anything else. I did my timing first so I could advance as much as needed and then use AFR to cool it down where needed. The most efficient setting for an engine to run if often just on the edge of detonation, so long as it is a compression ignition and not octane or heat related. As I stated earlier, do a couple log runs and study. This will show you a lot that is going on. After I play fuel or air, I will always look at timing to make sure I don't have any issues.
You are correct that heat can cause knock but in most cases, we should not be in that range when tuning. It takes a lot of fine tuning to get mine where I wanted it. And, like many who self tune, I am running mid 40s for MPG and my engine temps are a real constant 240-255 at most speeds. The only time I see this climb a little is when I am idle or in traffic. So, in those cases, I enriched it a little and it helped to keep temps from climbing fast.
I am at a point where I can set cruise at 55, in 6th and make a decent climb without losing speed or detonation in the lugging areas. No, I don't stay in these ranges but I tuned them anyways. I also use the acceleration enrichment to help get a little more fuel during the higher loads ranges and keep it a little cooler for the 100% throttle actions.
I am on a different ride than you so I don't know how that changes things. Here's what my AFR look like. I have tuned my AFR to keep my temps in the range.
Cruiser
Joined: Mar 2012
Posts: 123
Likes: 1
From: Prague, Czech Republic
Guys, I have been adjusting my spark advance tables and have come to some conclusions:
1) knock in front cylinder always happens in high load cells (80–100 MAP)
2) RPMs are from 2750 to 4500
3) when ECM detects knock it retards timing up to 8
4) the temps are usually in 230 range
With this, I started looking into spark adjust by air temps and head temps.
I tried to change all spark adjust by temps to zeros.
I also retarded problem cells by 2–3 degrees.
Not having enough experience but in urge to learn, I have the following questions now:
1) There are 3 settings in spark adjust by temp: air, head and engine, with engine temp set to zero (disabled) by default. Are you using these and if yes, what are the values?
2) Does pinging in WOT and high load cells indicate something else if off? Maybe I should look at some other table to correct this?
3) Does anyone with 2014 110 inch engine have working timing tables he would like to show?
Thanks to all for helping me understand this!
2014 CVO Road King
1) knock in front cylinder always happens in high load cells (80–100 MAP)
2) RPMs are from 2750 to 4500
3) when ECM detects knock it retards timing up to 8
4) the temps are usually in 230 range
With this, I started looking into spark adjust by air temps and head temps.
I tried to change all spark adjust by temps to zeros.
I also retarded problem cells by 2–3 degrees.
Not having enough experience but in urge to learn, I have the following questions now:
1) There are 3 settings in spark adjust by temp: air, head and engine, with engine temp set to zero (disabled) by default. Are you using these and if yes, what are the values?
2) Does pinging in WOT and high load cells indicate something else if off? Maybe I should look at some other table to correct this?
3) Does anyone with 2014 110 inch engine have working timing tables he would like to show?
Thanks to all for helping me understand this!
2014 CVO Road King
HD Forum Stories
The Best of Harley-Davidson for Lifelong Riders
7 Surprising Harley-Davidson Products that Are Not Motorcycles
Verdad Gallardo
8 Best Harley-Davidson Motorcycles Ever
Pouria Savadkouei
10 Worst Harley-Davidson Motorcycles Ever
Pouria Savadkouei
Killer Custom's Jail Break Is The Breakout That Refused to Blend In
Verdad Gallardo
Crazy Bunderbike Build Looks Amazing, But Is It Impossible to Ride?
Verdad Gallardo
Harley-Davidson Reveals Super Cool Cafe Racer Concept
Verdad Gallardo
Engraved Rebellion: Inside Bundnerbike's Glam Rock II
Verdad Gallardo
10 Motorcycles You Should Never Buy
Joe Kucinski
10 Things Harley-Davidson Needs to Fix in 2026
Verdad Gallardo
Road Warrior
Joined: Jul 2013
Posts: 1,624
Likes: 13
From: Fort Worth
It's easy, just look at PV log files and you will see that adding more gas cools the engine. Or, google it and you will see that enriching an engine will cool it.
Road Master
Joined: Dec 2012
Posts: 848
Likes: 30
From: CO
I'm in Fort Worth and know what you mean. I spend a 1/2 of my time riding in traffic so heat is a concern for me.
I am by no means an expert or even try to be one. I have spent countless hours playing and trying to get mine just right and have made mistakes along the way. My VE was started by the AT and I just tweaked it a little. Mainly, I did this mpore as a trail to see what happens than anything else. I did my timing first so I could advance as much as needed and then use AFR to cool it down where needed. The most efficient setting for an engine to run if often just on the edge of detonation, so long as it is a compression ignition and not octane or heat related. As I stated earlier, do a couple log runs and study. This will show you a lot that is going on. After I play fuel or air, I will always look at timing to make sure I don't have any issues.
You are correct that heat can cause knock but in most cases, we should not be in that range when tuning. It takes a lot of fine tuning to get mine where I wanted it. And, like many who self tune, I am running mid 40s for MPG and my engine temps are a real constant 240-255 at most speeds. The only time I see this climb a little is when I am idle or in traffic. So, in those cases, I enriched it a little and it helped to keep temps from climbing fast.
I am at a point where I can set cruise at 55, in 6th and make a decent climb without losing speed or detonation in the lugging areas. No, I don't stay in these ranges but I tuned them anyways. I also use the acceleration enrichment to help get a little more fuel during the higher loads ranges and keep it a little cooler for the 100% throttle actions.
I am on a different ride than you so I don't know how that changes things. Here's what my AFR look like. I have tuned my AFR to keep my temps in the range.
I am by no means an expert or even try to be one. I have spent countless hours playing and trying to get mine just right and have made mistakes along the way. My VE was started by the AT and I just tweaked it a little. Mainly, I did this mpore as a trail to see what happens than anything else. I did my timing first so I could advance as much as needed and then use AFR to cool it down where needed. The most efficient setting for an engine to run if often just on the edge of detonation, so long as it is a compression ignition and not octane or heat related. As I stated earlier, do a couple log runs and study. This will show you a lot that is going on. After I play fuel or air, I will always look at timing to make sure I don't have any issues.
You are correct that heat can cause knock but in most cases, we should not be in that range when tuning. It takes a lot of fine tuning to get mine where I wanted it. And, like many who self tune, I am running mid 40s for MPG and my engine temps are a real constant 240-255 at most speeds. The only time I see this climb a little is when I am idle or in traffic. So, in those cases, I enriched it a little and it helped to keep temps from climbing fast.
I am at a point where I can set cruise at 55, in 6th and make a decent climb without losing speed or detonation in the lugging areas. No, I don't stay in these ranges but I tuned them anyways. I also use the acceleration enrichment to help get a little more fuel during the higher loads ranges and keep it a little cooler for the 100% throttle actions.
I am on a different ride than you so I don't know how that changes things. Here's what my AFR look like. I have tuned my AFR to keep my temps in the range.