Power Vision Information Thread
Outstanding HDF Member
Joined: Jun 2014
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From: 90210
Can someone explain the difference between "New VE" and "VE" in the log data files, what triggers the logged adjustment of New values, and why the New values might be important to tuning?
Road Warrior
Joined: May 2013
Posts: 1,430
Likes: 55
From: Florida
VE is the value in the current tune your running, NEW VE is the adjusted value calculated by the ECM from data recieved from the O2 sensors and other factors in the "Closed Loop" portion of your tune. Those "Trim" values are used by the ECM to better target/hit the desired AFR in those cells. You can follow the changes in data logs CLI ,short term trim, AFF long term trim.They'll usually go up/down a percent or two every ride based on envrioment, temp, fuel grades...etc
Outstanding HDF Member
Joined: Jun 2014
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Likes: 189
From: 90210
Thanks- Appreciated. That's what I thought but was not sure about New VE.
So in understanding this correctly, "New VE" will not change for OL AFR values and will report the same number as current VE. The ECM is only logging changed New VE values based on fuel trims to try and hit the target CL AFR's. Sound right?
So in understanding this correctly, "New VE" will not change for OL AFR values and will report the same number as current VE. The ECM is only logging changed New VE values based on fuel trims to try and hit the target CL AFR's. Sound right?
Road Warrior
Joined: May 2013
Posts: 1,430
Likes: 55
From: Florida
Yep, you'll see the CLI's always stay at 100% in cells outside your Closed Loop Lambda Range.
Edit; If you see a large shift you can open that tune and edit those cells,Especially if theres an odd peak/valley in the VE table. If I do I usually split the difference and see what the next few logs do
Edit; If you see a large shift you can open that tune and edit those cells,Especially if theres an odd peak/valley in the VE table. If I do I usually split the difference and see what the next few logs do
Last edited by Smokey Stover; Apr 23, 2015 at 09:31 PM.
Outstanding HDF Member
Joined: Jun 2014
Posts: 3,185
Likes: 189
From: 90210
Thanks- This would lead me to better understand the need for getting all VE's properly tuned initially for the motor. Otherwise the ECM does not know if the VE values that reference an OL AFR are accurate out the tail pipe. If we could operate the motor and get the ECM to make use of WB O2 data, it would be a totally different ballgame.
Been reading a lot of books and tech guides on speed density EFI and Delphi- just trying to un-do my old way of tuning thinking and get a grasp on the new.
One of the biggest eye-openers for me was realizing the AFR table is simply a "target" for VE to try and hit. I was initially looking at it with my old Evo hat on and thinking AFR values were the main dictators. Further learning about how VE controls fuel delivery and AF, its interaction with MAF / temp, and the overall process flow of the ECM was also very enlightening. ..well maybe I should say 'enweighting' because it is not really light reading.. heh
Been reading a lot of books and tech guides on speed density EFI and Delphi- just trying to un-do my old way of tuning thinking and get a grasp on the new.
One of the biggest eye-openers for me was realizing the AFR table is simply a "target" for VE to try and hit. I was initially looking at it with my old Evo hat on and thinking AFR values were the main dictators. Further learning about how VE controls fuel delivery and AF, its interaction with MAF / temp, and the overall process flow of the ECM was also very enlightening. ..well maybe I should say 'enweighting' because it is not really light reading.. heh
Outstanding HDF Member
Joined: Jun 2014
Posts: 3,185
Likes: 189
From: 90210
OJ- I really like the Breakout (now). It is hands down a fun town bike and medium range bike- which is why I bought it. You'd need to deck it out for long trips, but IMO that's not it's intended purpose. It is comfy to ride all day, at least for me. Wife does not like the small seat on back but I made it better with re-stuffing it and adding a custom mini sissy bar.
That said, I initially liked the looks of the bike much more than how it rode. the OE tires don't grip, especially the rear, turn-in had a lot of flop and it was hard to transition a smooth line, and the front end dove so damn much it was killing any cornering clearance and made any hope of sudden braking next to impossible.
I was actually contemplating selling it, but figured I'd do a final attempt at correcting these issues- because outside of that I still really like the bike. I upgraded the front fork springs with Ricor dampers and 1.0kg springs, put on Pirelli Night Dragon tires, and EBC HH brake pads up front. Solved every single issue. Bike rides like a champ now / night and day difference. Not a major expense to do it either, and it was all well within scope of a 1-day DIY.
Power / TQ is in line with any of the 103b motors with pipes and intake upgrade - let's say high 60 / low 70 on the HP and mid to upper 90's on the TQ. Cams and heads will take care of that in short order though, pretty typical- that is on the list for this fall. really nothing bad at all to say about it- other than the poor stock tires and front suspension, which is easily fixable, it's an all around great bike.
That said, I initially liked the looks of the bike much more than how it rode. the OE tires don't grip, especially the rear, turn-in had a lot of flop and it was hard to transition a smooth line, and the front end dove so damn much it was killing any cornering clearance and made any hope of sudden braking next to impossible.
I was actually contemplating selling it, but figured I'd do a final attempt at correcting these issues- because outside of that I still really like the bike. I upgraded the front fork springs with Ricor dampers and 1.0kg springs, put on Pirelli Night Dragon tires, and EBC HH brake pads up front. Solved every single issue. Bike rides like a champ now / night and day difference. Not a major expense to do it either, and it was all well within scope of a 1-day DIY.
Power / TQ is in line with any of the 103b motors with pipes and intake upgrade - let's say high 60 / low 70 on the HP and mid to upper 90's on the TQ. Cams and heads will take care of that in short order though, pretty typical- that is on the list for this fall. really nothing bad at all to say about it- other than the poor stock tires and front suspension, which is easily fixable, it's an all around great bike.
Outstanding HDF Member
Joined: Jun 2014
Posts: 3,185
Likes: 189
From: 90210
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