Power Vision Information Thread
Tourer
Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 336
Likes: 2
From: mentor ohio
You may want to post this in the top level ignition / tuning thread area- more people will see it. I have a feeling that most if not all of the expert-level tuners are no longer around. Except Jamie of course see him here occasionally, but he's really here to support FuelMoto customers (understandably).
If you just had it dyno tuned did this issue not show up during tuning? I would not run AT after having it dyno tuned assuming that was done properly.
If you just had it dyno tuned did this issue not show up during tuning? I would not run AT after having it dyno tuned assuming that was done properly.
ok thanks LA dog appreciate it
Grand HDF Member
Joined: Dec 2014
Posts: 4,890
Likes: 553
From: USA
I flashed the custom tune for my mods from DK Customs but it still had lag on the low-end and very minor decel pops. Just ran autotune off the custom tune and big difference...smooth acceleration and downshifting, and got rid of most of the decel pops...now just gurgling.
I have read from some threads that after autotune engine should run cooler 220+. My normal operating temp is around 380 after autotune. Just want to find out if this is normal. What is your normal operating temperature? If not normal, what could cause it to run hot?
Thank you
I have read from some threads that after autotune engine should run cooler 220+. My normal operating temp is around 380 after autotune. Just want to find out if this is normal. What is your normal operating temperature? If not normal, what could cause it to run hot?
Thank you
Stellar HDF Member
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 2,928
Likes: 117
From: Ashby, Ma
Hello guys,I have a 2012 street glide with s&s 106 and woods 555 cams and cfr true duals, power vision with the auto tune pro, I have ran many runs with auto tune and I have taken it to be dyno tuned. My problem is when I want to ride aggressive and go through the gears at around 3500-4000 rpms it almost feels like it is hitting the rev limiter or it is too lean there in all gears but more noticable in 1st through 4th. I was told these cams it should be more like a power band in that area.I just did a update today with the power vision and was looking through some stuff but afraid to make any changes everything should already be set where it is supposed to be shouldnt it? or do I need to change anything within it to get it running the best i can? I was checking out the drive by wire vs gear setting for each gear and some were set to 255 and some were quite a bit lower but it said at the bottom that they should be all set to 255. any help would be greatly appreciated thanks
mike
mike
When you did Autotunes, did you successfuly get through the entire rpm range and iteratively finally get to a set of values within 5% or less through that range? Also as you did go through the autotunes did the ATs want to scale up and if you allowed the scale up, what final displacement value did you land on and were you finally able to do an AT without a request to continue to scale higher?
I'd be interested in what your AFR lambda settings are for that rpm range also?
I do agree with LAdog that this should have shown during the dyno, and all of the settings you now have in your PV should be the result of that dynotune.
The reason I ask about the scaling up thing, is when FuelMoto built my engine, they did an initial Dyno and found my fuel pump system to be failing at about 3500 rpm. The system just couldn't deliver anymore fuel at wot/high rpm, yet at lower rpms it felt fine. My only indication prior to the dynotune Jaime did was that the ATs kept wanting to scale up for the higher rpm numbers.
I've attached my dyno sheet for the example of what it looked like. Note the AFR just continues to gradually get leaner as the revs move beyond 3Krpm.
Makes me wonder if you don't have something similar.
Or, another thought, what are you using for a throttle body and injectors? Have those been upgraded? I wonder if they are able to deliver the fuel you need with that build? (but still that should have shown when you had a dynotune done)
see my dyno sheet attached.
Outstanding HDF Member
Joined: Jun 2014
Posts: 3,185
Likes: 189
From: 90210
Very good info. Nice dyno chart after the FM upgrades. Are you running the stock 50mm TB w/ 4.9 injectors?[EDIT] - scratch that, i see the note in the dyno chart about your SE 50mm TB. What's funny is even with my mild stage1 I see my puny 3.9 injectors hit up to 100% duty cycle on WOT / high Kpa. there is no way they'd support any type of increased performance.
Last edited by LA_Dog; Jun 1, 2015 at 09:12 AM.
Outstanding HDF Member
Joined: Jun 2014
Posts: 3,185
Likes: 189
From: 90210
I flashed the custom tune for my mods from DK Customs but it still had lag on the low-end and very minor decel pops. Just ran autotune off the custom tune and big difference...smooth acceleration and downshifting, and got rid of most of the decel pops...now just gurgling.
I have read from some threads that after autotune engine should run cooler 220+. My normal operating temp is around 380 after autotune. Just want to find out if this is normal. What is your normal operating temperature? If not normal, what could cause it to run hot?
Thank you
I have read from some threads that after autotune engine should run cooler 220+. My normal operating temp is around 380 after autotune. Just want to find out if this is normal. What is your normal operating temperature? If not normal, what could cause it to run hot?
Thank you
If you think your VE's are dialed in accurately, try running a richer AFR across the board and go for a test spin- see if temps are lower. it won't hurt anything to try this as a quick down-n-dirty test to see if running lean especially at idle / cruise was the cause. I've attached an example of a rich open-loop AFR table. I run this on my bike with So Cal 90's / 100's weather. I don't get over 280 with town stop-n-go and sitting at lights.
Also if you run richer AFR in the leftmost two columns 20,27 from 1250 rpm and up it will help with quieting decel popping. AT does not help with that either. you can use the exact values in the attached AFR table for a test.
lastly- if your VE's are not dialed in that well then making AFR table adjustments may not help much. the ECM can only calculate the AFR values correctly if VE's are set correctly. in many cases a good performance tuner will richen up VE's in a tune instead of richening up the AFR table. From what I've been learning about tuning, most of the time the VE's are set up too lean with the canned tune maps and also left too lean in load areas with the basic auto-tune products.
Last edited by LA_Dog; Jun 1, 2015 at 09:31 AM.
Grand HDF Member
Joined: Dec 2014
Posts: 4,890
Likes: 553
From: USA
Aloha- no i don't think that is normal. Especially for Hawaii because it's not that hot (80's right?). You may be running lean, the AT function really serves to dial in your idle / cruise area VE's for stoich 14.6. AT won't do anything for optimizing a more performance oriented tune, your high load or WOT areas. that requires some manual adjustment. I'm assuming though you have AT basic with narrow band O2. Wide band O2 tuning would be much better and my comments would not apply.
If you think your VE's are dialed in accurately, try running a richer AFR across the board and go for a test spin- see if temps are lower. it won't hurt anything to try this as a quick down-n-dirty test to see if running lean especially at idle / cruise was the cause. I've attached an example of a rich open-loop AFR table. I run this on my bike with So Cal 90's / 100's weather. I don't get over 280 with town stop-n-go and sitting at lights.
Also if you run richer AFR in the leftmost two columns 20,27 from 1250 rpm and up it will help with quieting decel popping. AT does not help with that either. you can use the exact values in the attached AFR table for a test.
lastly- if your VE's are not dialed in that well then making AFR table adjustments may not help much. the ECM can only calculate the AFR values correctly if VE's are set correctly. in many cases a good performance tuner will richen up VE's in a tune instead of richening up the AFR table. From what I've been learning about tuning, most of the time the VE's are set up too lean with the canned tune maps and also left too lean in load areas with the basic auto-tune products.
If you think your VE's are dialed in accurately, try running a richer AFR across the board and go for a test spin- see if temps are lower. it won't hurt anything to try this as a quick down-n-dirty test to see if running lean especially at idle / cruise was the cause. I've attached an example of a rich open-loop AFR table. I run this on my bike with So Cal 90's / 100's weather. I don't get over 280 with town stop-n-go and sitting at lights.
Also if you run richer AFR in the leftmost two columns 20,27 from 1250 rpm and up it will help with quieting decel popping. AT does not help with that either. you can use the exact values in the attached AFR table for a test.
lastly- if your VE's are not dialed in that well then making AFR table adjustments may not help much. the ECM can only calculate the AFR values correctly if VE's are set correctly. in many cases a good performance tuner will richen up VE's in a tune instead of richening up the AFR table. From what I've been learning about tuning, most of the time the VE's are set up too lean with the canned tune maps and also left too lean in load areas with the basic auto-tune products.
Yes I run AT basic with narrow band 02 since I only have stage 1 mods. I still need to run AT a few more times to dial it in. Once I get that done, will try to richen AFR using the values from your table to test.
Thank you much! Aloha!
Last edited by hscic; Jun 1, 2015 at 10:25 AM.
Outstanding HDF Member
Joined: Jun 2014
Posts: 3,185
Likes: 189
From: 90210
Thank you much for the assessment and information...very helpful. I actually thought AT adjusts the all of values you hit on the table. But a person on a thread did say he had to send his tune to Jamie at Fuelmoto to adjust decel enleanment to get rid of the decel popping.
Yes I run AT basic with narrow band 02 since I only have stage 1 mods. I still need to run AT a few more times to dial it in. Once I get that done, will try to richen AFR using the values from your table to test.
Thank you much! Aloha!
Yes I run AT basic with narrow band 02 since I only have stage 1 mods. I still need to run AT a few more times to dial it in. Once I get that done, will try to richen AFR using the values from your table to test.
Thank you much! Aloha!
You can also auto tune too much. typically you only need a few AT runs to get what you can out of it. What someone like Jamie / FM does is put in some manual changes to the tune based on personal experience and knowledge.
When you say you have high temps is this with auto-tune turned on or disabled? I can fully see this happening with AT turned on. I personally don't even use AT, waste of time trying to properly tune with narrow band O2. I tried it once and all it did was kill my performance and raise ET's by leaning out the VE's I had set richer. That's ok if I want uber-economy but eh this aint no Prius brah ;p
Intermediate
Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 32
Likes: 2
From: Redmond, Oregon
I flashed the custom tune for my mods from DK Customs but it still had lag on the low-end and very minor decel pops. Just ran autotune off the custom tune and big difference...smooth acceleration and downshifting, and got rid of most of the decel pops...now just gurgling.
I have read from some threads that after autotune engine should run cooler 220+. My normal operating temp is around 380 after autotune. Just want to find out if this is normal. What is your normal operating temperature? If not normal, what could cause it to run hot?
Thank you
I have read from some threads that after autotune engine should run cooler 220+. My normal operating temp is around 380 after autotune. Just want to find out if this is normal. What is your normal operating temperature? If not normal, what could cause it to run hot?
Thank you
I also have several systems that try to address the heat issues inherent with my 120r motor.
I would be concerned if my head temps was in excess of 300 degrees F!!
Roger
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Grand HDF Member
Joined: Dec 2014
Posts: 4,890
Likes: 553
From: USA
Well yes and no- AT will adjust cells it hits. But, you only have narrow band O2 sensors so they can only do so much. the goal of AT is to try and tune the VE's so they report somewhat accurately for the motor. but in doing this tuning, you are running a fixed 14.6 AFR table and pulling 4 degrees of timing. that can make for a very hot running bike especially if idling or riding slow, going up hills with any sort of open throttle and load on the motor.
You can also auto tune too much. typically you only need a few AT runs to get what you can out of it. What someone like Jamie / FM does is put in some manual changes to the tune based on personal experience and knowledge.
When you say you have high temps is this with auto-tune turned on or disabled? I can fully see this happening with AT turned on. I personally don't even use AT, waste of time trying to properly tune with narrow band O2. I tried it once and all it did was kill my performance and raise ET's by leaning out the VE's I had set richer. That's ok if I want uber-economy but eh this aint no Prius brah ;p
You can also auto tune too much. typically you only need a few AT runs to get what you can out of it. What someone like Jamie / FM does is put in some manual changes to the tune based on personal experience and knowledge.
When you say you have high temps is this with auto-tune turned on or disabled? I can fully see this happening with AT turned on. I personally don't even use AT, waste of time trying to properly tune with narrow band O2. I tried it once and all it did was kill my performance and raise ET's by leaning out the VE's I had set richer. That's ok if I want uber-economy but eh this aint no Prius brah ;p