Power Vision Information Thread
Member
Joined: Jul 2009
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No, I'm the one who's confused. The procedure I mentioned above worked with older FW and WinPV versions, at least in the past month, and is still editable in the PV--but now I see this parameter is in WinPV. Okay, that makes it simpler, but you change it as mentioned above, and it only changes the fuel-used parameter...that is unless they've changed that too. I had recommended making it a one-parameter calibration rather than getting VSS involved, so I'll double-check to make sure its function is the same and will report back.
Dennis has it right. I can't see MPG Adj. in WinPV on older tunes, and the only way for me to see it there is to Load Copy of Tune from the PV and move it to WinPV. I can then edit, save, etc. and it'll be there in the future.
Dennis has it right. I can't see MPG Adj. in WinPV on older tunes, and the only way for me to see it there is to Load Copy of Tune from the PV and move it to WinPV. I can then edit, save, etc. and it'll be there in the future.
Currently the only tune file adjustments available in Pro mode for my tune files are RPM Limit, Adaptive Control and Idle RPM Adder. I don't find these adjustments to be terribly helpful from the PV. Hopefully the Load Copy approach from the ECU will be more successful to view the latest adjustment features.
Last edited by Heatwave; Jun 23, 2011 at 06:49 PM.
Cruiser
Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 222
Likes: 1
From: Massachusetts
I also can't see the adj mpg feature and I've updated all PV firmware to the latest version. I'll try the "Load Copy" approach from the ECU. Seems odd and not well thought out that this would be the only way to add new features to older tune files. DJ needs to provide an "update tune file" from within WinPV or they are going to have alot of confused users as they begin addin new features to future tune file formats.
Currently the only tune file adjustments available in Pro mode for my tune files are RPM Limit, Adaptive Control and Idle RPM Adder. I don't find these adjustments to be terribly helpful from the PV. Hopefully the Load Copy approach from the ECU will be more successful to view the latest adjustment features.
Currently the only tune file adjustments available in Pro mode for my tune files are RPM Limit, Adaptive Control and Idle RPM Adder. I don't find these adjustments to be terribly helpful from the PV. Hopefully the Load Copy approach from the ECU will be more successful to view the latest adjustment features.
I agree,
Right now the only way to acquire the latest enhancments is to load current copy and bring that into WinPV. I have done this with every firmware update and always notice the new tables.
Supporter
Joined: Sep 2007
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From: @Home
No, I'm the one who's confused. The procedure I mentioned above worked with older FW and WinPV versions, at least in the past month, and is still editable in the PV--but now I see this parameter is in WinPV. Okay, that makes it simpler, but you change it as mentioned above, and it only changes the fuel-used parameter...that is unless they've changed that too. I had recommended making it a one-parameter calibration rather than getting VSS involved, so I'll double-check to make sure its function is the same and will report back.
Dennis has it right. I can't see MPG Adj. in WinPV on older tunes, and the only way for me to see it there is to Load Copy of Tune from the PV and move it to WinPV. I can then edit, save, etc. and it'll be there in the future.
Dennis has it right. I can't see MPG Adj. in WinPV on older tunes, and the only way for me to see it there is to Load Copy of Tune from the PV and move it to WinPV. I can then edit, save, etc. and it'll be there in the future.
Member
Joined: Jul 2009
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You adjust the MPG using two parameters. One is the new "MPG adjustment" in the edit section of the PV. To access it, go to the PV > Program Vehicle > Load Copy > Load Copy of Current, then drop it in a Custom Tune slot. Open it, then Edit, which should show you several editable parameters, one of which is MPG Adjustment. This is a misnomer since it really only changes the fuel-used parameter. Whatever the number that's in there, in your case subtract 10%, which should lower the fuel-used by that percentage. Tweak it until it matches the actual fuel used, which will probably take a few tankfuls. BTW, I don't know if you need to do the Load Copy rigmarole described above or not, but that's the way I was told to do it.
The problem with getting MPG just right is that it involves MPG Adjustment and VSS (Vehicle Speed), which is the Speedometer Calibration in WinPV. This adjusts the speedometer in the ECM, but this may be different than what you see on your fairing gauge. My ECM speedometer is 1.2% slower than my fairing speedometer, which I have set correctly and that's where it's going to stay. So, in my case I'll need to select between an accurate Fuel Used gauge or MPG gauges, and I'll take the first. I will be seeing a correct Fuel Used gauge, once it is tweaked, but my MPG will be off by 1.2% or thereabouts. I hope this is clear.
Edit: MPG Adjustment is now in WinPV too.
The problem with getting MPG just right is that it involves MPG Adjustment and VSS (Vehicle Speed), which is the Speedometer Calibration in WinPV. This adjusts the speedometer in the ECM, but this may be different than what you see on your fairing gauge. My ECM speedometer is 1.2% slower than my fairing speedometer, which I have set correctly and that's where it's going to stay. So, in my case I'll need to select between an accurate Fuel Used gauge or MPG gauges, and I'll take the first. I will be seeing a correct Fuel Used gauge, once it is tweaked, but my MPG will be off by 1.2% or thereabouts. I hope this is clear.
Edit: MPG Adjustment is now in WinPV too.
On a separate subject I'm alittle disconcerted with the changes that the PV made to the original tune file when it updated the file after copying it from the ECU.
Specifically I used the "Compare" feature to compare the original old tune file to the new one that was copied back to the PV from the bike's ECU.
The following changes were made to the original tune file:
- VE Front was modified in many cells. Small changes and possibly rounding issues.
- VE Rear was modified in many cells. Small changes and possibly rounding issues.
- Minor changes were made to the injector size. Possibly rounding adjustments.
- Minor changes were made to a large block of cells in the Lambda AFR table. Possibly rounding adjustments.
- I checked all other Compare parameters and found no other changes.
Thoughts from others?
Last edited by Heatwave; Jun 23, 2011 at 09:05 PM.
Thread Starter
|
Extreme HDF Member
Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 11,615
Likes: 50
From: Baton Rouge, LA
Compared to quantum physics this is easy, but just by a smidgeon. Also this news flash: MIT is now offering a new course called "Power Vision and the Space-Time Continuum 401." Maybe they have a correspondence course for us.
Last edited by iclick; Jun 23, 2011 at 10:53 PM.
Road Master
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 766
Likes: 3
From: SoCal Desert
....
The problem with getting MPG just right is that it involves MPG Adjustment and VSS (Vehicle Speed), which is the Speedometer Calibration in WinPV. This adjusts the speedometer in the ECM, but this may be different than what you see on your fairing gauge. My ECM speedometer is 1.2% slower than my fairing speedometer, which I have set correctly and that's where it's going to stay. So, in my case I'll need to select between an accurate Fuel Used gauge or MPG gauges, and I'll take the first. I will be seeing a correct Fuel Used gauge, once it is tweaked, but my MPG will be off by 1.2% or thereabouts. I hope this is clear.
Edit: MPG Adjustment is now in WinPV too.
The problem with getting MPG just right is that it involves MPG Adjustment and VSS (Vehicle Speed), which is the Speedometer Calibration in WinPV. This adjusts the speedometer in the ECM, but this may be different than what you see on your fairing gauge. My ECM speedometer is 1.2% slower than my fairing speedometer, which I have set correctly and that's where it's going to stay. So, in my case I'll need to select between an accurate Fuel Used gauge or MPG gauges, and I'll take the first. I will be seeing a correct Fuel Used gauge, once it is tweaked, but my MPG will be off by 1.2% or thereabouts. I hope this is clear.
Edit: MPG Adjustment is now in WinPV too.
Thread Starter
|
Extreme HDF Member
Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 11,615
Likes: 50
From: Baton Rouge, LA
Thanks Iclick. I was able to access the new PV adjustment features such as MPG Adj and Speedo Calibration. Seems like a very clunky approach to add new adjustment features to existing tune files. You might want to consider alerting DJ that they need to build an "Update" feature into WinPV to upgrade previous tune files with the latest adjustment features they are adding to the PV and WinPV. To not do so soon before adding more features is definitely going to be a problem for users that have older tune files. Particularly if the only way to add the new features is to first load the tune file to the bike using the old file, then "copy the ECU Tune" back to the PV in order to add the latest tuning features.
On a separate subject I'm alittle disconcerted with the changes that the PV made to the original tune file when it updated the file after copying it from the ECU.
Specifically I used the "Compare" feature to compare the original old tune file to the new one that was copied back to the PV from the bike's ECU.
The following changes were made to the original tune file:
Thoughts from others?
Specifically I used the "Compare" feature to compare the original old tune file to the new one that was copied back to the PV from the bike's ECU.
The following changes were made to the original tune file:
- VE Front was modified in many cells. Small changes and possibly rounding issues.
- VE Rear was modified in many cells. Small changes and possibly rounding issues.
- Minor changes were made to the injector size. Possibly rounding adjustments.
- Minor changes were made to a large block of cells in the Lambda AFR table. Possibly rounding adjustments.
- I checked all other Compare parameters and found no other changes.
Thoughts from others?
Me: Some of the values within tables have been changed, none very much. The most notable are those in the VE tables, which have all been rounded to the nearest 0.5. This isn’t significant, but why was this done? Other tables have one or two values changed, never very much, leaving the others alone. Can I just move all tables from the old map back to the new?
DJ: As far as the table values being "changed" when flashed to the ECU and read back, that is as designed. I realize you didn’t do a read on your current tune as a “.stk”, and then convert to a .pvt, and then sent that to us, but that’s essentially what we did (convert an .stk to .pvt). We took a known, good .stk file (.pvt’s don’t include all the calibration data that a .stk does) and converted that to a .pvt and included the MPG tweak. Rather than limiting what the user types in to fit EXACTLY onto the ECU, we let them get within 1 decimal place. For example, some tables might only accept .0,.25,.50,.75 but we'll let them enter the 2 full decimal places. TTS/SuperTuner would limit them to those 4 values. We did that for two reasons: 1) Easier to program/manage 2) Easier for users who are typing and cutting/pasting/doing math/pvv importing on cells. The values will get clipped when flashed, not whenever modified, if that makes sense, so error won't propagate through movements/math.
So long story short, this isn’t an issue. It’s a by-product of the flexibility of our software, and a limitation of the ECM’s ability to handle precision.
Last edited by iclick; Jun 23, 2011 at 11:05 PM.
Road Warrior
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 1,549
Likes: 18
From: Upstate SC
One caution on mpg, I found while tuning my mpg was terrible because I ride so differently to hit other areas of the map. Once you get your tune nailed down and return to normal riding habits you can check your mileage. Seems like I normally lose 3-4 mpg while doing the tuning runs but that is understandable.
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Member
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I'll make that recommendation.
I ran into this over a month ago when testing the MPG parameters when in beta testing. I sent them my latest tune and they converted it to reflect the MPG error I was getting, but this parameter was not alterable by me at that time and was only a test. When I got it back it had the values rounded as you observed. Below is my question and the explanation I got. Rounding occurs to the nearest .5, but if the value is at .0 or .5 it remains unchanged, at least in the VE tables. I agreed that it wasn't significant and apparently the ECM tables do the rounding anyway, or at least that's my interpretation.
Me: Some of the values within tables have been changed, none very much. The most notable are those in the VE tables, which have all been rounded to the nearest 0.5. This isn’t significant, but why was this done? Other tables have one or two values changed, never very much, leaving the others alone. Can I just move all tables from the old map back to the new?
DJ: As far as the table values being "changed" when flashed to the ECU and read back, that is as designed. I realize you didn’t do a read on your current tune as a “.stk”, and then convert to a .pvt, and then sent that to us, but that’s essentially what we did (convert an .stk to .pvt). We took a known, good .stk file (.pvt’s don’t include all the calibration data that a .stk does) and converted that to a .pvt and included the MPG tweak. Rather than limiting what the user types in to fit EXACTLY onto the ECU, we let them get within 1 decimal place. For example, some tables might only accept .0,.25,.50,.75 but we'll let them enter the 2 full decimal places. TTS/SuperTuner would limit them to those 4 values. We did that for two reasons: 1) Easier to program/manage 2) Easier for users who are typing and cutting/pasting/doing math/pvv importing on cells. The values will get clipped when flashed, not whenever modified, if that makes sense, so error won't propagate through movements/math.
So long story short, this isn’t an issue. It’s a by-product of the flexibility of our software, and a limitation of the ECM’s ability to handle precision.
I ran into this over a month ago when testing the MPG parameters when in beta testing. I sent them my latest tune and they converted it to reflect the MPG error I was getting, but this parameter was not alterable by me at that time and was only a test. When I got it back it had the values rounded as you observed. Below is my question and the explanation I got. Rounding occurs to the nearest .5, but if the value is at .0 or .5 it remains unchanged, at least in the VE tables. I agreed that it wasn't significant and apparently the ECM tables do the rounding anyway, or at least that's my interpretation.
Me: Some of the values within tables have been changed, none very much. The most notable are those in the VE tables, which have all been rounded to the nearest 0.5. This isn’t significant, but why was this done? Other tables have one or two values changed, never very much, leaving the others alone. Can I just move all tables from the old map back to the new?
DJ: As far as the table values being "changed" when flashed to the ECU and read back, that is as designed. I realize you didn’t do a read on your current tune as a “.stk”, and then convert to a .pvt, and then sent that to us, but that’s essentially what we did (convert an .stk to .pvt). We took a known, good .stk file (.pvt’s don’t include all the calibration data that a .stk does) and converted that to a .pvt and included the MPG tweak. Rather than limiting what the user types in to fit EXACTLY onto the ECU, we let them get within 1 decimal place. For example, some tables might only accept .0,.25,.50,.75 but we'll let them enter the 2 full decimal places. TTS/SuperTuner would limit them to those 4 values. We did that for two reasons: 1) Easier to program/manage 2) Easier for users who are typing and cutting/pasting/doing math/pvv importing on cells. The values will get clipped when flashed, not whenever modified, if that makes sense, so error won't propagate through movements/math.
So long story short, this isn’t an issue. It’s a by-product of the flexibility of our software, and a limitation of the ECM’s ability to handle precision.
Likewise, the AFR table lowered the lambda by .001 across the table out to about 70% and down to 3000rpms. Doesn't make sense to me why these changes are occuring and it would appear to be a different reason then the changes made to the VE tables.
I-click, any chance you can get an explanation?
Road Warrior
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 1,549
Likes: 18
From: Upstate SC
Thanks Iclick. I was able to access the new PV adjustment features such as MPG Adj and Speedo Calibration. Seems like a very clunky approach to add new adjustment features to existing tune files. You might want to consider alerting DJ that they need to build an "Update" feature into WinPV to upgrade previous tune files with the latest adjustment features they are adding to the PV and WinPV. To not do so soon before adding more features is definitely going to be a problem for users that have older tune files. Particularly if the only way to add the new features is to first load the tune file to the bike using the old file, then "copy the ECU Tune" back to the PV in order to add the latest tuning features.
When you load the tune from your bike you are bringing the data from the ECM into the PV and then into WinPV so you can see or edit it. DynoJet may be able to automate the procedure but the process will remain the same. The "new to PV/WinPV" data will have to come from the ECM on the bike.