Wmitz, thanks for the update. I will experiment with the IAC steps (small steps). I don't do a lot of WOT while AT'ing, those maybe many of the cells not populated but I will try to have more fun and do more.

Would it help if I smoothed that cell in the rear VE table?

Not sure if this will help but I had an issue last fall, the motor wouldn't idle worth a damn. It would idle then drop off and the (compensator) would start clanging. Took it to the dealership, the head mechanic whom I know after two week gave up in frustration. He replaced a few sensiors, check many things out, etc... I even got Pat Daniels from DJ involved, still nothing. I brought it home checked everything I could, I also have a '07 Deuce (2000 miles) so I swapped out every sensor, plug wires, coil everything I could think of even the ECM (loaded with the 120 tune), nothing. I then used a product recommended for cleaning and increasing electrical contacts, I did every sensor and even the ECM plug. Then I bought the TT, plugged it in and no more low idle issues. So to this day I have no idea what the problem was, been advised just to be happy and forget about it but it's still in the back of my mind.

 

DDH, I can't see what the pv monitor was showing you, but from the 2 tunes this is what I see. If you load both tunes into the win pv software and look at the delta file you can see where the changes are and where they are not. 1125-2250 don't seem to have any changes from 10% throttle to 100 %. Also in the 3500-6000 range there don't seem to be changes the ve with light throttle as in under 20%. Please don't take this as criticism, these areas are hard to work on, but for a good tune it is necessary. Light throttle, go down hill on a hyway, slow down, downshift to third, bring the rpms up to where you need to be, work the throttle to fill in the cells. Rinse and repeat. For the higher throttle areas use higher gears at low rpms for load. Keep an eye on the road and the other on the pv to see how it is coming along. Keep up the good work, you'll get there, and it will become easier as you see what you have to do to fill different cells.

Smoothing manually is nice for the eye, but the engine wants what it wants. If you manually change ve numbers without making any changes to the cde or physical changes the ECM will eventually work back to the original number. It just the way it is.

 

Thanks for the advice I will follow it. Generally when I do a TT/AT I warm the bike up then ride through town to get that part of the tune but I must admit once out of town I'm probably a little more aggressive going through the gears cause it feels so good but also thinking it's better for the tune. Now I'll ride like I usually do.

I looked at the original dyno tune from a few years back and noticed a difference in the front cde, it was lower, don't know how it would change. The rear was a tad lower but higher than the front. Could I copy and paste that to the current tune? Also, somewhere along the line the AFR changed outside of the cruising area (above, below and to the right) from the original 13.6 to 14.0, not by me. I did have AT before TT/AT.

As always thanks. Dennis

 

DDH, from my conversations with Jamie, do not copy anything from other tunes into the the TT map. There are different values behind the scene using TT, that will not work. Jamie actually posted somewhere in this thread copying other values from other maps will corrupt the TT map. My tune runs 14.2 AFR .966 Lambda from idle to 3750 out to 70 kpa.

 

Wmitz, good to know will not copy. To be specific, would it be okay to manually change the numbers in cde? Good I can stop thinking about those AFR's.

 

DDH, I would leave everything as is until you get the ve's settled in.

 

Wmitz, done, will do.

 

Dog, I think it can work if, if the engine is knock limited. In other words it would ping/knock before reaching MBT. Otherwise you'll increase timing beyond MBT, lose power, and add heat. This is something I've been struggling with as well. Someone could make runs, measure rate of change of RPM for specific throttle positions, say start at 2000 rpm in 3rd, crack the throttle to 10% let rpm rise until steady, repeat for each throttle position, save the log, increase timing 2 degrees across the board, repeat the process on the same Stretch of road, compare logs looking at rate of change of rpm using excel or MLVHD see where things changed, and make appropriate changes in timing (if the increase caused a reduction in rpm rate, back to where itr was if no change, or up more if it increased), could work reviewing for timing beyond pulled. Long laborious process, without a dyno... but, ... it could work. Probably run timing tune afterwards to get rid of ping/knock at higher loads (is top gear).

 

I've followed this thread since 2012 with a question and comment once in a while. I think that right now if someone thinking about buying a tuner for their bike were to jump into the current part of it, they'd conclude that a Powervision was way, way over their head. The fact of the matter is that the PV, or the PV with TargetTune is about the easiest way to get a great running bike, WITHOUT messing with tables or the other advanced subjects that seem to be pretty hot here right now.

I'm on my third bike with a PV and it's been plug and play on all three. Do I have a tune comparable to a 4 hour dyno session? nope, but I'm not drag racing and based on several years of riding trouble and heat free, without any hiccups and on all three bikes, it's been installation, at the maximum 4 AT sessions and then just ride, ride, ride. I'm pretty confident (Jamie might want to comment here, as I know at least part of his income comes from hours on a dyno) that the 5% I might pick up is really down there in the law of diminishing returns..

Note that I really don't want to discourage the current discussions, as I'm benefiting from them every day (first thread I check every day, just to see what Dog is up to), just hate to think somebody might be scared off....

 

^^ just busy working on my measly 5% - LOL

You nailed it- it is probably the best complete plug-n-play system for accurate fuel tuning, the PV plus the TT add on. get TT-enabled map, do a few TT-AT runs, done.

I've mentioned a few times that we need an "advanced PV tuning information thread" so we stop polluting this one with deep specific discussion, but right now this is really the only central source for any and all discussion. but it should not deter anyone looking at getting the PV for getting a better running bike and it's overall pretty easy to use- provided that you buy it from FM directly, since they provide much better 1st time user instruction and follow up support.

for the advanced tuning use, there is merit to optimizing things like spark advance / fuel curves for best performance. I see a large difference seat of pants with a tweaked timing map vs stock timing map, mainly in the off-idle and roll-on areas. the stock timing maps are somewhat detuned. also I can lower my ET's at idle and slow cruise in hot weather by not running such excessive stock advance in those areas and richening up the fuel. but most riders will never care about this and it's not a requirement to make changes to those areas.

From an advanced tuning standpoint, I find the PV system severely lacking in utility and guidance to someone who does not know anything about delphi or tuning. the manual is horrible beyond anything basic, there are no comprehensive tuning guides, there are no log data utilities for assisting with optimizing all areas of the tune based on captured ride data. Yet the mfr is one of the best sources for dyno tuning equipment with literally millions of hours of logged dyno operations.
I hate to say it but I found that one of my best sources of data are the TTS manual and tuning guides. And I look at some of the tuning aids they have with their Datamaster log analysis software, as well as the automotive delphi tuning products and their log analysis capabilities, and it really has me wondering why DJ has dropped the ball on this- We have all the good raw data in the PV logs, but no way to intelligently process it into advanced tune optimizations without requiring years of understanding tuning / reading logs, and using other data analysis products with steep learning curves like MLV- or - hoping a knowledgeable forum member will help out.

This post is not meant as a complaint, rather an observation- overall I'm happy with the PV and glad I bought it, it is a quality product. Just not pleased that such a powerful tuning product is cut in half by not including intelligent log data analysis tools, decent guides, and suggested peak power configurations based on DJ's years of collected dyno run data and dyno tuning experience. Hopefully DJ will put some more thought and work into the advanced user side of things, which would make an excellent product even better for those 5%'ers like me.

In the interim we're lucky to have members here with advanced tuning skills willing to help out with the advanced questions, provide custom tunes, etc.