Daymaker/LED headlight for a slim
Ultimate HDF Member
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 9,193
Likes: 494
From: Richmond, VA
Oh boy, where to begin. No compliant, non adaptive headlight doesn't have a blind spot when leaning into a curve, period. It's a physically impossibility because compliant lights are required to have a cut-off zone, and when you lean into a corner you start to drive into that zone. If you ride like my Grandfather you may not notice it. If your light actually doesn't have this well defined cut-off then it's not a DOT compliant light. The most common reason for that is substitution of an aftermarket LED bulb in the original lens, resulting in the wrong light focus. (OEM H4 headlights tend to have pretty poor optics.) Same for those dumb "drop-in HIDs".
LOL..... what?
What you are saying is simply FALSE. You are just making up facts to bolster your opinion. Until the whole LED Daymaker came into being, these blind spots were virtually unheard of. No one ever disputed that LED lights don't make excellent light output, but until the Daymaker, going blind into corners was not a problem. Motorcycle manufactures have realized long before you or me were ever born........ that motorcycles LEAN. I mean, come on. The blind spot is a relatively new phenomenon. Even the MOCO has known about it since 2014 when the only motorcycles that came stock with the Daymakers, ALSO came with spot lights to fill in the gaps. The bikes like the Street Glide that had NO SPOTS...... were unavailable with the LED. They ONLY came with incandescent H9/H11 headlights. But I'm sure you think that's just a coincidence!!!
Ultimate HDF Member
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 9,193
Likes: 494
From: Richmond, VA
And just for the record.....
This is the stock DOT compliant light pattern with an incandescent bulb.
And I NEVER had a problem leaning into a corner:
And this is the same headlight with DOT compliant incandescent housing on high beam.
Again, never an issue...... never.
This is the stock DOT compliant light pattern with an incandescent bulb.
And I NEVER had a problem leaning into a corner:
And this is the same headlight with DOT compliant incandescent housing on high beam.
Again, never an issue...... never.
Last edited by bikerlaw; Apr 5, 2017 at 12:33 AM.
Road Warrior
Joined: Jun 2015
Posts: 1,325
Likes: 140
From: Edinburgh UK
I agree.
If you read some of the other threads and experience on projector type LED headlights, often mentioned is that unless you are straight on to the bike, the light is not as bright as standard incandescent.
In other words slightly off to the side you are not as noticeable to traffic looking in their mirrors ...as well as not having such a good pattern to the sides for you to see the road.
Have a look at the JW video on their new "Comfort Lighting" and you will see what they were trying to address
If you read some of the other threads and experience on projector type LED headlights, often mentioned is that unless you are straight on to the bike, the light is not as bright as standard incandescent.
In other words slightly off to the side you are not as noticeable to traffic looking in their mirrors ...as well as not having such a good pattern to the sides for you to see the road.
Have a look at the JW video on their new "Comfort Lighting" and you will see what they were trying to address
Road Master
Joined: Jun 2013
Posts: 953
Likes: 127
From: Rome, NY
As an example - If you're going on a level road your low beam may light up the road to 100 feet. But if you suddenly come to a steep hill, your light can't light the hill until you actually start climbing it. In the transition from level to hill there's a section where you will override your lights because the cut-off will compress that 100 foot area to maybe 60 feet. Once you've transitioned onto the hill you'll be back to the 100 foot area. That's similar to what happens when you lean into a curve. The tighter the curve and more lean, the higher the compression of that lighted area. Taken to extreme, a 90 degree curve taken with the bike leaned over to almost 90 degrees would result in maybe 10 feet of lighted curve ahead of you - like trying to drive up your garage door! (Obviously a stupid idea.)
Addition of road lights will help, but unless they're aimed high enough to blind oncoming traffic they will suffer the same compression as the headlight as the lean angle and curve increases.
A good visual aid would be the best way to explain this, but I don't have one handy. Sorry.
Ultimate HDF Member
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 9,193
Likes: 494
From: Richmond, VA
...You posted photos that actually show the reason for the problem. Seriously, I'm not trying to blow smoke up your rear. Look at it this way - even your photos show the DoT required vertical cut-off.
As an example - If you're going on a level road your low beam may light up the road to 100 feet. But if you suddenly come to a steep hill, your light can't light the hill until you actually start climbing it. In the transition from level to hill there's a section where you will override your lights because the cut-off will compress that 100 foot area to maybe 60 feet. Once you've transitioned onto the hill you'll be back to the 100 foot area. That's similar to what happens when you lean into a curve. The tighter the curve and more lean, the higher the compression of that lighted area. Taken to extreme, a 90 degree curve taken with the bike leaned over to almost 90 degrees would result in maybe 10 feet of lighted curve ahead of you - like trying to drive up your garage door! (Obviously a stupid idea.)
Addition of road lights will help, but unless they're aimed high enough to blind oncoming traffic they will suffer the same compression as the headlight as the lean angle and curve increases.
A good visual aid would be the best way to explain this, but I don't have one handy. Sorry.
As an example - If you're going on a level road your low beam may light up the road to 100 feet. But if you suddenly come to a steep hill, your light can't light the hill until you actually start climbing it. In the transition from level to hill there's a section where you will override your lights because the cut-off will compress that 100 foot area to maybe 60 feet. Once you've transitioned onto the hill you'll be back to the 100 foot area. That's similar to what happens when you lean into a curve. The tighter the curve and more lean, the higher the compression of that lighted area. Taken to extreme, a 90 degree curve taken with the bike leaned over to almost 90 degrees would result in maybe 10 feet of lighted curve ahead of you - like trying to drive up your garage door! (Obviously a stupid idea.)
Addition of road lights will help, but unless they're aimed high enough to blind oncoming traffic they will suffer the same compression as the headlight as the lean angle and curve increases.
A good visual aid would be the best way to explain this, but I don't have one handy. Sorry.
Road Master
Joined: Jun 2013
Posts: 953
Likes: 127
From: Rome, NY
Your argument is absolutely valid. But what your not appreciating is that the standard Halogen lens and housing casts a much broader pattern on the road than does the extremely precise light pattern of the original Daymakers. So yes, even though the incandescent housing does have its limitations, its still better at casting a more diffused pattern of the road, which become advantages during sharp leaning turns.
And where the complaints from Daymaker owners stem from. I WAS running a 80/100 watt Hella in my stock housing. I'll tell you this, when you were on the back roads and threw that sucker on high beam, it freaking lit up the world. I have NEVER found any LED that could compete with that 100 watt Hella at night and on back roads. And the reason it was so awesome was it broadly painted everything in front of the bike. It threw precise defined light patterns right out the window, and just blew light everywhere. Even my current OPT7 drop in LED can not outdo that 100w Hella on pitch black back roads. But, alas, it wasn't even close to DOT compliant, so I switched to my current LED. I run a Daymaker style composite light on my Snorkster. Its a great light, but I ride that bike a whole lot less so any further attempts at light output improvement are unnecessary for me.
Here's a few screen captures from a video I did after I mounted the Adaptive light. I had it pointed a bit low on this first ride, but you can see the extra bars of fill-in light in the turns (I tend to lean my BO over quite a bit even at slow speed.)
Road Warrior
Joined: Jun 2015
Posts: 1,325
Likes: 140
From: Edinburgh UK
Really? that kind of ever so slightly goes against the physics of the situation ...speed and the angle/sweep of the corner, and the design of the bike (front/rear tyres etc) kind of dictate how much lean is required. Most riders don't tend to think, oh I think I will scrape my pegs here just for the hell of it??
Anyway, getting back to halogen lights have been fine for donkey's years ...and I am not disagreeing in the slightest that more light in a corner is not a good thing ...have you worked out that with a DOT pattern cut off 2ş below horizontal and you lean the bike 30ş ...with a light that has good peripheral spread (no, that is not blinding oncoming traffic) ...there is still more than plenty light in the corner ...and always has been until LED headlights came out with rather rubbish peripheral spread.
OK, unless you lean 30ş and turn the handlebars into the turn ...but we would fall off then
Good lights bad lights whatever, best advice is to see one in real life and decide if it is for you or not (that decision normally includes the cost of the unit, obviously)
Anyway, getting back to halogen lights have been fine for donkey's years ...and I am not disagreeing in the slightest that more light in a corner is not a good thing ...have you worked out that with a DOT pattern cut off 2ş below horizontal and you lean the bike 30ş ...with a light that has good peripheral spread (no, that is not blinding oncoming traffic) ...there is still more than plenty light in the corner ...and always has been until LED headlights came out with rather rubbish peripheral spread.
OK, unless you lean 30ş and turn the handlebars into the turn ...but we would fall off then
Good lights bad lights whatever, best advice is to see one in real life and decide if it is for you or not (that decision normally includes the cost of the unit, obviously)
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Elqueso2
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