Dyno vs. Fuel Management System
Elite HDF Member
Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 3,928
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From: Desert S. West
The bike is brand new - 2009 Night Train. At purchase, I had dealer install V&H Big Shot Staggered (http://www.vanceandhines.com/product...sstag-blk.html) and a ST3 Big Bore. From the invoice, it says they did a "Stage 1" exhaust service and a custom fuel map (which I take to be the Dyno?)
So now I have a V&H Drak Air Filter ready to be installed. I am scheduled for a Dyno next week so I could install the Drak and then get the Dyno tune. I had thought that the Dyno tune at the dealer would optimize whatever set up I had on when they ran it.
So, if I go as planned and install the Drak and get the Dyno, do I still need some type of autotune device? And if I do get autotune system, do I need another Dyno tune again after that is installed?
All the help is much appreciated. Yes I think I got ahead of myself with all this work but learning a lot very quickly.
So now I have a V&H Drak Air Filter ready to be installed. I am scheduled for a Dyno next week so I could install the Drak and then get the Dyno tune. I had thought that the Dyno tune at the dealer would optimize whatever set up I had on when they ran it.
So, if I go as planned and install the Drak and get the Dyno, do I still need some type of autotune device? And if I do get autotune system, do I need another Dyno tune again after that is installed?
All the help is much appreciated. Yes I think I got ahead of myself with all this work but learning a lot very quickly.
Second; what is a 'ST3' Big Bore? Do you mean Screamin' Eagle Big Bore kit which would jump it up to 103, 107, or 110 inches?
If that's the case they might have put the standard HD 'MAP' on it which would still need to be re-tuned to run right.
You see; HD must comply with EPA laws. Their hands are tied. They can not, by law, give you, me, or anyone else the tune we want.
That's why all these aftermarket tuners have surfaced.
About EFI: The beauty of EFI is that it can be tuned to a gnat's butt of perfection throughout the RPM and Throttle Position spectrum. We are talking about some wonderfully high technology but it's on our bikes because the EPA has mandated a certain level of polution control. We have almost gone to the end of the spectrum with air-cooled motors. Actually we passed that some years ago but motorcycles have been given an extension simply because they get such good gas mileage and there just isn't that many on the road compared to cars.
Look at the VW Beetle to see how they have been banned.
Carbed bikes run good and if I had to pick one over the other I would pick carbs because they don't have near the potential to fail and if they do; it's likely someone close by can fix it if you can't.
Back to the Big Bore. Are you sure you have a big bore kit on your bike? It would have added a couple grand to the price if you did and you would have had to wait a while for it to get done.
Ultimate HDF Member
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 5,257
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From: Leander Texas
around 400 used and about 900 new. price went up as there was a co on ebay selling new for 650 but they a re gone now. must be because they are getting popular
Last edited by tk353; Aug 25, 2009 at 09:46 AM.
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Ok mate. We need to clear up a couple of things here. First; what is a 'Drak' air cleaner?
Second; what is a 'ST3' Big Bore? Do you mean Screamin' Eagle Big Bore kit which would jump it up to 103, 107, or 110 inches?
If that's the case they might have put the standard HD 'MAP' on it which would still need to be re-tuned to run right.
...
Back to the Big Bore. Are you sure you have a big bore kit on your bike? It would have added a couple grand to the price if you did and you would have had to wait a while for it to get done.
Second; what is a 'ST3' Big Bore? Do you mean Screamin' Eagle Big Bore kit which would jump it up to 103, 107, or 110 inches?
If that's the case they might have put the standard HD 'MAP' on it which would still need to be re-tuned to run right.
...
Back to the Big Bore. Are you sure you have a big bore kit on your bike? It would have added a couple grand to the price if you did and you would have had to wait a while for it to get done.
27513-08 1 ST3 1690 RACE KIT, BLACK
29773-02C 1 1584 ST 1 EFI KIT
29586-06 1 BLACK BACKPLATE KIT
32076-04 1 KIT, COMPRESSION RELEASE 29773-02C 1 1584 ST 1 EFI KIT
29586-06 1 BLACK BACKPLATE KIT
The "Drak" is simply the syle of Air Filter from V&H - there is also a "Duke." I went with V&H Air Filter to match the V&H pipes. (http://www.vanceandhines.com/download/D713IN.pdf)
Road Captain
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 566
Likes: 4
From: Texas
Try $900 for ThunderMax with AutoTune for Big Twins. Still well worth the investment, since it continuously tunes while you're riding, compensating for different loads, riding conditions, altitudes, wear on various engine components, etc. A single dyno tune won't do that.
That Google thing is so helpful! 
http://www.vanceandhines.com/product...drakcover.html
http://www.vanceandhines.com/product...drakcover.html
Last edited by austinharley; Aug 25, 2009 at 08:43 AM.
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"Custom Fuel Map" does not (necessarily) mean dyno.
Custom fuel map is the specific code inserted into the on-board fuel computer for your specific for your specific pipes and air filter.
It can be "canned" so-to-speak from prior dyno runs for similar set-ups, or specific for you personal bike through a "proper" dyno job.
I'm not trying to push the V&H's Fuel Pack, but that's the route I went.
V&H "pre-dynos" bikes with many different pipe/air filter/engine sizes (including yours). Then they come up with a "map" or code to insert into the fuel computer (in this case my Fuel Pack) that programs the fuel flow for a given set-up (pipes/air filter/engine size) from idle to high rpm. These codes are useful for the average bike with your set-up.
The dyno takes it even further and a well-trained/experienced technician(operative phrase here) can tweak your fuel management computer specifically for YOUR bike. My Fuel Pack code was so good that I don't need tweaking. My bike flat works fantastically from idle to high freeway speeds with no bogging down or popping. That's what a correct fuel management computer and a map code do.
The deal breaker on the dyno for me was, do I really want someone I don't even know take my brand new engine on multiple "drag runs" (on a stand, albeit) and drive the engine so hard when it is new. NO!
I'll break it in myself, thank you. Too wordy, perhaps,
but I had the same questions as you.
BTW, I think you are going to absolutely love your V&H Big Shot Staggereds. And no, you don't need the quiet baffles. They just sound 10/10 as they are!
Custom fuel map is the specific code inserted into the on-board fuel computer for your specific for your specific pipes and air filter.
It can be "canned" so-to-speak from prior dyno runs for similar set-ups, or specific for you personal bike through a "proper" dyno job.
I'm not trying to push the V&H's Fuel Pack, but that's the route I went.
V&H "pre-dynos" bikes with many different pipe/air filter/engine sizes (including yours). Then they come up with a "map" or code to insert into the fuel computer (in this case my Fuel Pack) that programs the fuel flow for a given set-up (pipes/air filter/engine size) from idle to high rpm. These codes are useful for the average bike with your set-up.
The dyno takes it even further and a well-trained/experienced technician(operative phrase here) can tweak your fuel management computer specifically for YOUR bike. My Fuel Pack code was so good that I don't need tweaking. My bike flat works fantastically from idle to high freeway speeds with no bogging down or popping. That's what a correct fuel management computer and a map code do.
The deal breaker on the dyno for me was, do I really want someone I don't even know take my brand new engine on multiple "drag runs" (on a stand, albeit) and drive the engine so hard when it is new. NO!
I'll break it in myself, thank you. Too wordy, perhaps,
but I had the same questions as you.BTW, I think you are going to absolutely love your V&H Big Shot Staggereds. And no, you don't need the quiet baffles. They just sound 10/10 as they are!
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