103 Big Bore verus 103 Hop Up difference?
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Cruiser
Joined: Nov 2006
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I agree. My initial plan was a bolt in cam. It seems I would be spending alot more cash, and chasing very little gains. I am going to do the bolt in with a new tuner. Appreciate everyone's knowledge and advice.
Seasoned HDF Member
Joined: Sep 2009
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From: SE Michigan
From just a bolt in cam? Really?
Stellar HDF Member
Joined: Jul 2006
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From: Michigan
There is a forum on the web that a lot of the Dyno tuners are on that talk about all kinds of different cam and motor combination. They have tested several cams in the 96 motor and with the right tune have gotten 95-98 HP and upwards of 105 ftlbs of torque using the SE 204 cams in an otherwise stock motor, using the thundermax autotune and a couple of other aftermarket tuners.
Some of these 103 kits I've read about on this forum are only getting 104-109 ftlbs of torque out of there builds. You can get a set of cams for about 250.00 with some of the online sights discounts and with adjustable push rods and a gasket set you may be out around 500 or so if you do it yourself. A lot less than a 103 just without the bragging rights. Just my .02
Some of these 103 kits I've read about on this forum are only getting 104-109 ftlbs of torque out of there builds. You can get a set of cams for about 250.00 with some of the online sights discounts and with adjustable push rods and a gasket set you may be out around 500 or so if you do it yourself. A lot less than a 103 just without the bragging rights. Just my .02
HDF Community Team
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 12,780
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From: san antonio
Really. Good exhaust and good tune is required. Might not get there with the 48 but won't miss by much. Either cam would work nicely but I am partial to the SE204 and think it a very underrated cam.
A typical Stage II 103 dealer build with the SE255 cams will come in at 103TQ/86HP; Stage III with high compression pistons and 259E cams will come in about 100TQ/96HP. MCSarge is right about the $500 assuming you already have good exhaust and a tuner. A cam change is a good first project for a novice DIY guy, good way to build confidence and learn something about your bike.
A typical Stage II 103 dealer build with the SE255 cams will come in at 103TQ/86HP; Stage III with high compression pistons and 259E cams will come in about 100TQ/96HP. MCSarge is right about the $500 assuming you already have good exhaust and a tuner. A cam change is a good first project for a novice DIY guy, good way to build confidence and learn something about your bike.
Last edited by djl; Feb 10, 2011 at 08:16 PM.
Club Member
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 145,895
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From: 40 miles Northeast of Indy..
SCREAMIN ’ EAGLE PRO STAGE III KIT – 103 CUBIC INCHES
Your original plan, i.e. a cam only upgrade to a 96" using the SE204 or Andrews 48H cams will not get you 110TQ/HP but should get 100+TQ/95HP with a broader curve and a bike that is more fun to ride for the less than half of the SE upgrade. Either cam will work nicely but I am liking the SE204 with a 4* advance gear.
Your original plan, i.e. a cam only upgrade to a 96" using the SE204 or Andrews 48H cams will not get you 110TQ/HP but should get 100+TQ/95HP with a broader curve and a bike that is more fun to ride for the less than half of the SE upgrade. Either cam will work nicely but I am liking the SE204 with a 4* advance gear.
[QUOTE=Keithhu;7900636]From just a bolt in cam? Really?
================================================== =
I am with Keithhu on this one,, My son has had 2 96'' softails (07Deuce and 09 NT) with the 204's and I'll agree their good cam on a lighter bike,
But on the dyno one was 94/81 and the other 93/80... A long way from 100/95.
Both of them had V& H's, one was BR 2-2, and the other BSL's.. they also had SERT tuner and were dynoed at the same dealer by the same master Wrench/tuner. they were SAE 4th gear pulls. and he even sits on the bike while dynoing them.
His new street glide with the newer V&H's 2-1-2 system with Rush pipes and S&S 551's with the SEpro tuner, dynoed 94/82. SAE, 4th gear.
I thought some more on this..
If its dynoed using STD and a 5th gear pull without sitting on it,, then 100 tq dyno would be attainable.
But I still believe 95 hp would be stretching the limits with out head porting being done...
I will say bumping a stock 96'' up to mid 90's TQ and low mid 80's HP is a big and good improvement that most will be happy with.
heres a nice little site to read that talks about cams and what to expect..
http://www.harley-riders-guide.com/h...rformance.html
Last edited by oct1949; Feb 11, 2011 at 03:19 AM. Reason: added
Road Master
Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 869
Likes: 14
From: Long Island
I already have the SERT when I bought the SG in july 2010. Had it tuned, V&H pro pipe and aircleaner. Now Im thinking of the SE Stage III. Since I already have the SERT that comes with the kit they are offering to remove it and credit me back $429 and exchange the SE 259 cams for the SE 211 cams as well as 10% off which bring its down to about $971 plus tax, 6 hours labor @ $100 an hour and $300 for a dyno tune. Im debating whether to add the CNC ported heads for an additional $720. How does that build sound?
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HDF Community Team
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 12,780
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From: san antonio
[QUOTE=oct1949;7902583]================================================== =
Yoiu are right about the difference beween a 4th gear SAE pull and STD 5th gear pull, could easy be 5TQ/5HP. However, there are plenty of stock 96"ers making the 100/95 number. The 204s like compression and many are running a 4* advance gear with those cams and better exhaust; 2:1 systems like ProPipe, Fatcat, Thunderheader and Python 3. BR2-2 and BSLs have never been known for power; eye candy but the don't make TQ. Run the 204s 4* advanced and get some decent pipes and see what happens. Some are also pullling the heads and installing a .030" head gasket as well; good for about .25 bump in static CR.
From just a bolt in cam? Really?
================================================== =
I am with Keithhu on this one,, My son has had 2 96'' softails (07Deuce and 09 NT) with the 204's and I'll agree their good cam on a lighter bike,
But on the dyno one was 94/81 and the other 93/80... A long way from 100/95.
Both of them had V& H's, one was BR 2-2, and the other BSL's.. they also had SERT tuner and were dynoed at the same dealer by the same master Wrench/tuner. they were SAE 4th gear pulls. and he even sits on the bike while dynoing them.
His new street glide with the newer V&H's 2-1-2 system with Rush pipes and S&S 551's with the SEpro tuner, dynoed 94/82. SAE, 4th gear.
I thought some more on this..
If its dynoed using STD and a 5th gear pull without sitting on it,, then 100 tq dyno would be attainable. But I still believe 95 hp would be stretching the limits with out head porting being done...
================================================== =
I am with Keithhu on this one,, My son has had 2 96'' softails (07Deuce and 09 NT) with the 204's and I'll agree their good cam on a lighter bike,
But on the dyno one was 94/81 and the other 93/80... A long way from 100/95.
Both of them had V& H's, one was BR 2-2, and the other BSL's.. they also had SERT tuner and were dynoed at the same dealer by the same master Wrench/tuner. they were SAE 4th gear pulls. and he even sits on the bike while dynoing them.
His new street glide with the newer V&H's 2-1-2 system with Rush pipes and S&S 551's with the SEpro tuner, dynoed 94/82. SAE, 4th gear.
I thought some more on this..
If its dynoed using STD and a 5th gear pull without sitting on it,, then 100 tq dyno would be attainable. But I still believe 95 hp would be stretching the limits with out head porting being done...
Last edited by djl; Feb 11, 2011 at 11:02 PM.
Club Member
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 145,895
Likes: 821
From: 40 miles Northeast of Indy..
[QUOTE=djl;7906863]
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Plenty of stock 96er's making 100/95. Hope U mean stockers with bolt in cams,, but even with cams it doesn't seem that way in here.
Maybe Ur getting those number in Ur area but not around here. Most SE103 bb kits without head work end up around 103/85, give or take a little..
Take a look a the the softail Dyno Thread or even the Touring Section dyno thread.... Seems to me most 96er's in those threads with bolt in cams are around 92-95tq/80-85hp give or take some..
https://www.hdforums.com/forum/softa...-softails.html
https://www.hdforums.com/forum/touri...r-baggers.html
Any combination of BB kit, Cams, head work, good pipes and good tune seems to to be needed to get in the +100 #'s of TQ and +90 HP according to the dyno's Ive seen in here.
U'll see someone now and then that post their stock stg1 96er dynoed 95/90, or some wild #'s but they seldom post the sheets. And if they do 1st thing I think is someone found a real happy dyno machine..
================================================== =
Yoiu are right about the difference beween a 4th gear SAE pull and STD 5th gear pull, could easy be 5TQ/5HP. However, there are plenty of stock 96"ers making the 100/95 number. The 204s like compression and many are running a 4* advance gear with those cams and better exhaust; 2:1 systems like ProPipe, Fatcat, Thunderheader and Python 3. BR2-2 and BSLs have never been known for power; eye candy but the don't make TQ. Run the 204s 4* advanced and get some decent pipes and see what happens. Some are also pullling the heads and installing a .030" head gasket as well; good for about .25 bump in static CR.
Yoiu are right about the difference beween a 4th gear SAE pull and STD 5th gear pull, could easy be 5TQ/5HP. However, there are plenty of stock 96"ers making the 100/95 number. The 204s like compression and many are running a 4* advance gear with those cams and better exhaust; 2:1 systems like ProPipe, Fatcat, Thunderheader and Python 3. BR2-2 and BSLs have never been known for power; eye candy but the don't make TQ. Run the 204s 4* advanced and get some decent pipes and see what happens. Some are also pullling the heads and installing a .030" head gasket as well; good for about .25 bump in static CR.
Plenty of stock 96er's making 100/95. Hope U mean stockers with bolt in cams,, but even with cams it doesn't seem that way in here.
Maybe Ur getting those number in Ur area but not around here. Most SE103 bb kits without head work end up around 103/85, give or take a little..
Take a look a the the softail Dyno Thread or even the Touring Section dyno thread.... Seems to me most 96er's in those threads with bolt in cams are around 92-95tq/80-85hp give or take some..
https://www.hdforums.com/forum/softa...-softails.html
https://www.hdforums.com/forum/touri...r-baggers.html
Any combination of BB kit, Cams, head work, good pipes and good tune seems to to be needed to get in the +100 #'s of TQ and +90 HP according to the dyno's Ive seen in here.
U'll see someone now and then that post their stock stg1 96er dynoed 95/90, or some wild #'s but they seldom post the sheets. And if they do 1st thing I think is someone found a real happy dyno machine..
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Texas Fat Boy
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