Big rake, stretch needed?
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Cruiser
Joined: Feb 2012
Posts: 160
Likes: 2
From: North Florida
Big rake, stretch needed?
So I'm looking at a long front end, around 20-22" over. What I'm wondering, do I HAVE to add in stretch, or can I just cut into the neck, rock it back and run with it?
I haven't decided if I'm going to do it or have someone do it yet, though I'm leaning towards the latter due to limited welding equipment on hand. Unfortunately, my TIG is still sitting at the manufacturer's, they don't want to send it to me till I pay for it, go figure
and all I have on hand is a 120v MIG. Yes, I know it'll handle it if done right, but still...
I'm just looking at the neck construction on this 84 ironhead and I'm not sure how easy a stretch would be, mainly the reorientation of the downtubes.
Experience? Thoughts from those who have done these?
I haven't decided if I'm going to do it or have someone do it yet, though I'm leaning towards the latter due to limited welding equipment on hand. Unfortunately, my TIG is still sitting at the manufacturer's, they don't want to send it to me till I pay for it, go figure
and all I have on hand is a 120v MIG. Yes, I know it'll handle it if done right, but still...I'm just looking at the neck construction on this 84 ironhead and I'm not sure how easy a stretch would be, mainly the reorientation of the downtubes.
Experience? Thoughts from those who have done these?
If you don't extend the down tubes (up) or stretch the backbone (out) and only add rake your bike will sit like a digger. They're very cool...but lack alot of handling. Your trail will be very long.
Usually I will start with the frame, modify it as I want then shop for an appropriate front end but if there's a specific front end I want to run (like it seems you are doing) then I'll mock up the front end & wheel until it's sitting with proper trail...like this
This will tell me the rake I will need and from there I can measure the neck location to the floor, subtract the ground clearance I want and compare that to stock dimensions. That will tell me how much "up" I need. The "out" is subjective to your liking but, for me, it is usually half of the "up" added length.
Usually I will start with the frame, modify it as I want then shop for an appropriate front end but if there's a specific front end I want to run (like it seems you are doing) then I'll mock up the front end & wheel until it's sitting with proper trail...like this
This will tell me the rake I will need and from there I can measure the neck location to the floor, subtract the ground clearance I want and compare that to stock dimensions. That will tell me how much "up" I need. The "out" is subjective to your liking but, for me, it is usually half of the "up" added length.
Thread Starter
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Cruiser
Joined: Feb 2012
Posts: 160
Likes: 2
From: North Florida
So you're talking 'up' to adjust trail, right?
I've read quite a few of your posts and respect your input, at what point would you call it too much trail? This is going to be a bar hopper (note: I don't drink when riding, ever, not even a beer) so it will be ridden quite a bit, only time it'll be on a trailer is stolen or broke down, but it also won't be doing multiple hour runs. To an extent, this bike will be more form than function, but must remain functional. Normally, I'm all about function and form is an afterthought.
I've read quite a few of your posts and respect your input, at what point would you call it too much trail? This is going to be a bar hopper (note: I don't drink when riding, ever, not even a beer) so it will be ridden quite a bit, only time it'll be on a trailer is stolen or broke down, but it also won't be doing multiple hour runs. To an extent, this bike will be more form than function, but must remain functional. Normally, I'm all about function and form is an afterthought.
Thanks.
Reangle the neck to account for trail. Add "up" to put the lower frame rails where you want them with the long front end (parallel with the ground, 3 of 4 degree slope to the rear, whatever).
If you plan on just cruising around at somewhat rational speeds and often negotiating parking lots, trail will be important. Trail issues are exposed at low & high speeds.
The rule of thumb of proper trail is 4-6" but 3-7" has always been a good range for me.
Reangle the neck to account for trail. Add "up" to put the lower frame rails where you want them with the long front end (parallel with the ground, 3 of 4 degree slope to the rear, whatever).
If you plan on just cruising around at somewhat rational speeds and often negotiating parking lots, trail will be important. Trail issues are exposed at low & high speeds.
The rule of thumb of proper trail is 4-6" but 3-7" has always been a good range for me.
Road Captain
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 713
Likes: 2
From: Pa.
20 over all in the neck is crazy. 8" over tubes all in the neck will put the forks at 50 deg. Thats allot. front will feel very heavy and takes a parking lot to turn around. I've done 2 like this so......... For forks that long you will need to go up with your down tubes about a foot. So your back bone will need stretched out to make up for that. Very do able but lots of work. I did one that I put the neck at 40 deg went up 2.5 in. out 1 in. 6in over tubes. Thing rides great. Did another with 8" tubes went up and out also rides great. Now if you get raked trees to go with you can do more rake in the neck.
Road Captain
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 713
Likes: 2
From: Pa.
Agree 100% but doing that all in the neck without trees, no way the trail will be correct unless you go straight up with very little rake.
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Oh I see what you're saying. Raked trees will decrease trail. If you want your frame a specific way then trees may be necessary.
I usually build with springers so I have to set everything by the frame and sometimes by manipulating the rockers.
I usually build with springers so I have to set everything by the frame and sometimes by manipulating the rockers.
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