DYNOJET: TT AT vs PV Basic AT
Road Warrior
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 1,923
Likes: 587
From: Alorton, Illinois
Originally Posted by whittlebeast
That just proves you don't understand the concept. Each of those combinations play with the far less dynamic pieces of the fuel equation.
Have fun learning and tuning.
Andy
Have fun learning and tuning.
Andy
I took a stock 110 255 cam CVO touring that put out about 90hp and 110 tq. Did Head work, 58tb, and Kury 24d cams. 120/120 but if you multiplied MAP x RPM on both engines. They come out to same airflow.
I'm proud not to understand the concept. I'm too busy understanding that valves/ cams are what truly control airflow through an engine. With some other components such as exhaust playing a huge role.
I also understand that a head that flows 310 at 6000 is going to make more power than a head that flows 250 at 6000. But 100kpa x 6000rpm = 600,000. Why does it make more power? Because it flows more. Not because some made up formula says the flow is the same.
You guys can believe Andy's made up BS if you want. But he thinks and will try to convince you that horse power is determined by duty cycle as well. Blah, blah, blah........
Road Warrior
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 1,923
Likes: 587
From: Alorton, Illinois
Here is a 2012 CVO 110
Kury 24D
VH PD and Bassani slip ons
The difference between these two runs is one of them have the baffles removed. But according to the math:
2500 x 100 = 250,000
3000 x 100 = 300,000
3500 x 100 = 350,000
4000 x 100 = 400,000
4500 x 100 = 450,000
5000 x 100 = 500,000
5500 x 100 = 550,000
6000 x 100 = 600,000
is for both of the engines combo's. If both engines combo's are flowing the same amount of air and both engines combo's have a lambda of .885. They would be putting out the same power. BUT in the real world where you back up theory with testing. We see that they can not have the same amount of airflow between these two combo's.
Kury 24D
VH PD and Bassani slip ons
The difference between these two runs is one of them have the baffles removed. But according to the math:
2500 x 100 = 250,000
3000 x 100 = 300,000
3500 x 100 = 350,000
4000 x 100 = 400,000
4500 x 100 = 450,000
5000 x 100 = 500,000
5500 x 100 = 550,000
6000 x 100 = 600,000
is for both of the engines combo's. If both engines combo's are flowing the same amount of air and both engines combo's have a lambda of .885. They would be putting out the same power. BUT in the real world where you back up theory with testing. We see that they can not have the same amount of airflow between these two combo's.
Cruiser
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 163
Likes: 10
From: Wherever I put my helmet
Yeah right. And if you or any one else thinks that DJ is the only one to have access to the "Harley Hidden Tables" then your in for a rude surprise. Not to mention that every DJ Dyne sold would have it in their support software. You know, to help verify that tune file your going to use.
BTW, you still didn't answer oleboy's question.
Here, I will answer it Andy style:
Road Warrior
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 1,923
Likes: 587
From: Alorton, Illinois
There isn't a tuning device in this industry that exposes all the tables and there never will be.
He keeps bringing up the "Sportster" cal but he will never talk about the level of calibration it is, and he won't talk about what they actually did in the calibration with these "hidden tables"
BUT we can all look at his files and download and open up his calibrations and we can see for ourselves that they are indeed a level 176 calibration.
http://www.nbs-stl.com/PVTune/
Looks like I am also referring to the aftermarket calibrations for the Vision as well. We all do understand that a Vision calibration isn't the whole thing and it needs what is in the ECM in order to work. So, you have to wonder where Vision is getting these calibrations from in the first place. This isn't how TTS, SE, or Techno Research works. You can program and run a blank ECM with these. A vision cal needs the ECM to have a base SE calibration flashed into it first.
Road Master
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 1,177
Likes: 23
Cruiser
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 163
Likes: 10
From: Wherever I put my helmet
Prove it Andy.
Quit trying to speak for DJ Andy. They have already said what they have done.
Just admit it Andy, you couldn't tune your own bike.
But you can tune Jetskis, so you say.
You can tune cars, so you say.
But you can't tune your sportster, so you have said.
We here do not care one wit about jetskis and cars. We care about the beast you can't fathom, A Harley.
You know, that one you couldn't tune.
Here, I will save you the trouble:
Folks, Andy can not tune his own sportster.
He finally had to give in and buy the PV, Use the PRO "Auto Tune" feature to pump in a DYNO PROVEN Calibration
and have the TT add on "fix" and maintain the state of tune for him that DJ did the fine adjustments on.
But he is willing to help you tune yours.
Even tho he can't tune his.
Road Master
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 1,177
Likes: 23
I have proved it.
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Road Warrior
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 1,923
Likes: 587
From: Alorton, Illinois
No you haven't. Only thing you have proven is you are willing to post data and describe it any way you want to fit your narrative. Even though the data doesn't even support what you are describing.
This has been done over and over in these two threads:
https://www.hdforums.com/forum/the-d...w-band-11.html
https://www.hdforums.com/forum/the-d...istics-15.html
Cruiser
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 163
Likes: 10
From: Wherever I put my helmet
Where, how, with what? Where's the hard data?
You haven't proven a damn thing Andy.
The only thing you have proven, by your own words, is that you can't even tune your own bike.
That fact that you used the PV, Pro Auto Tune and TT doesn't prove any of your claims. Not a one.
You have gone around the internet claiming Dyno tuning is worthless and not needed yet you had to use a calibration
proven by a Dyne. A Dyne, the very tool that you claim is worthless and not needed. But wait a minute, you have even said you use a dyne. Not yours , but your buddies. So I now take it that you are a qualified knowledgeable dyno operator and tuner. Therefore you should be able to effectively tune your bike. You claim a Harley can be street tuned by using MLV but you had to do yours using a calibration proven on a dyne so that you could use PV/PAT and TT to do what you couldn't.
But the fact is one can "street tune" a Harley, including a sportster, using a choice from a number of available products.
Or one can just cut the crap, the cost, the time, educate themselves on the processes, educate themselves on the people doing the tuning
and have their bike tuned on a Dyno by a knowledgeable professional instead of a hack who can't directly answer a simple question. A question so simple that even the manufacturers of tuning aids put it in black and white on their websites.
And further more. I have not seen you finish one damn thread effectively in regards to tuning a Harley Davidson with the exception of your shock modification, which was nothing spectacular or new at all.
Now answer oleboy's question effectively with clarity and fact.
All this garbage for one question and you can not, will not answer it factually.
Your pretty much the go of the gigo equation. How's that for math.
You haven't proven a damn thing Andy.
The only thing you have proven, by your own words, is that you can't even tune your own bike.
That fact that you used the PV, Pro Auto Tune and TT doesn't prove any of your claims. Not a one.
You have gone around the internet claiming Dyno tuning is worthless and not needed yet you had to use a calibration
proven by a Dyne. A Dyne, the very tool that you claim is worthless and not needed. But wait a minute, you have even said you use a dyne. Not yours , but your buddies. So I now take it that you are a qualified knowledgeable dyno operator and tuner. Therefore you should be able to effectively tune your bike. You claim a Harley can be street tuned by using MLV but you had to do yours using a calibration proven on a dyne so that you could use PV/PAT and TT to do what you couldn't.
But the fact is one can "street tune" a Harley, including a sportster, using a choice from a number of available products.
Or one can just cut the crap, the cost, the time, educate themselves on the processes, educate themselves on the people doing the tuning
and have their bike tuned on a Dyno by a knowledgeable professional instead of a hack who can't directly answer a simple question. A question so simple that even the manufacturers of tuning aids put it in black and white on their websites.
And further more. I have not seen you finish one damn thread effectively in regards to tuning a Harley Davidson with the exception of your shock modification, which was nothing spectacular or new at all.
Now answer oleboy's question effectively with clarity and fact.
All this garbage for one question and you can not, will not answer it factually.
Your pretty much the go of the gigo equation. How's that for math.