DYNO Numbers for Baggers???
Intermediate
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 41
Likes: 0
From: Pembroke Pines Fl
Again thank you. I was amazed at how long the second tech actually took tuning the bike. He worked a solid 2.5 hours doing it. Bought him lunch after for appreciation since the second time was under warranty.
In 06, the heads got a needed upgrade, but the cams started getting worse, and by 07 they were neutered badly in the name of emissions. Run a decent bolt in cam in your 09 103 bike, and you'll see a very nice bump up in power. It's relatively common to get 90+hp and 100+ ft lbs with a good cam. Look at the Woods TW-5-6, the Cycle Rama 575 and the SE204 and 255.
If all you do is a stage I, swap to a higher flow air cleaner and slip ons, yes, your ECM will adapt. Better to go to a fuel management device, though, because it will still be lean, and run hot. Add a power commander for a few hundred bucks and your bike will run better and cooler.
The o2 sensors are narrow band, meaning they will only read a small (narrow) range of A/F. If your bike is running out of this range (which it would be to lean for a stage I) then the o2 sensors don't read and won't make adjustments.
Intermediate
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 41
Likes: 0
From: Pembroke Pines Fl
What data do you have that it will adjust for this? The ECM will in NO way adapt for a stage I A/C. You can get by with pipes only, but it will not adjust for the A/C. I just had one on the dyno last week that the guy put a stage I kit on and put around 1000 miles. It was still cruising at over 17:1 A/F.
The o2 sensors are narrow band, meaning they will only read a small (narrow) range of A/F. If your bike is running out of this range (which it would be to lean for a stage I) then the o2 sensors don't read and won't make adjustments.
The o2 sensors are narrow band, meaning they will only read a small (narrow) range of A/F. If your bike is running out of this range (which it would be to lean for a stage I) then the o2 sensors don't read and won't make adjustments.
6th Gear
Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 12
Likes: 0
From: Texas
I have a 2010 Road Glide. Did an experiment... with 1600 miles, put it on a dyno and it came out at 63.3 hp and 80.32 torque. It was bone stock with the 98 motor and two into one exhaust from the factory. Then put S&S 2 into 2 header and SPO slipons plus Tuned Runner intake, tuned it and put it on a dyno. The stage 1 made 72.04 hp and 82.06 Torque. Then we upgraded to a 585 S&S cam, tuned it and dyno'd it. With the stage 2 upgrade, we made 87.06 hp and 89.61 torque. Then installed 106 kit and tuned and dyno'd it. The stage 3 upgrade made 99.24 hp and 107.35 torque. Then put on the S&S stage 4 heads with larger valves and ported/shaved. Tuned it and dyno'd it. With the stage 4, we made 106.19 hp and 108.07 Torque. That was a 67% increase in hp and a 35% increase in torque. We did this to try to get a true "scientific" measurment of the improvements that could be expected with this combination of parts and how much could be gained with each step of the upgrade. Dyno results are not absolute... put a different bike with the same motor on the same dyno and you will probably get different answers. What is important is the relative improvements that can be had. We played no dyno games for bragging rights. Put more air in the rear tire and you will show more hp. Put a lighter wheel on the rear and you will show more hp. We just focused on trying to measure real results. Made video's showing each step of the process plus have dyno charts. If interested, I will later post dyno charts and video's. I don't want this to be considered spam, so let me know if you are interested in the details or the video's.
Last edited by texasroadglide; Apr 28, 2011 at 07:55 PM.
The stage I download does slightly advance the timing table, which will help decelleration popping. It will still be lean, and I wouldn't want to run a bike in that condition any more than I'd want to run a bike with the stock fuel map.
Incidentally, American Iron recently tested a bike with both slip ons and air cleaner, without the stage I download or any fuel management device whatsoever. The bike made more power, which they suggest it could not have done if it was running any leaner than stock. I think it was in AIM that I first read the theory that you didn't need to buy the download just to add stage I air cleaner and mufflers on the 07 and newer bikes.
Last edited by Mike; Apr 29, 2011 at 05:13 AM.
Novice
Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 15
Likes: 0
From: charlton ma
i have k&n, power programmer and stock mufflers with the baffles punched out and im getting 74hp and 73 tq. i have the sheet but cant post it.
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Tourer
Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 369
Likes: 3
From: Hoisington Ks
Thank You.
The police bikes have always had the same cams as the civilian bikes. If your 02 had a different cam, it's only because someone else along the way had changed it. Otherwise, the 02 cam for fuel injected bikes really wasn't all that bad, and not a whole lot different than the Andrews 21. A cam change in the pre-06 bikes usually isn't all that dramatic an affair, partly because the stock cams weren't all that bad, and partly because the heads weren't all that great.
In 06, the heads got a needed upgrade, but the cams started getting worse, and by 07 they were neutered badly in the name of emissions. Run a decent bolt in cam in your 09 103 bike, and you'll see a very nice bump up in power. It's relatively common to get 90+hp and 100+ ft lbs with a good cam. Look at the Woods TW-5-6, the Cycle Rama 575 and the SE204 and 255.
If all you do is a stage I, swap to a higher flow air cleaner and slip ons, yes, your ECM will adapt. Better to go to a fuel management device, though, because it will still be lean, and run hot. Add a power commander for a few hundred bucks and your bike will run better and cooler.
In 06, the heads got a needed upgrade, but the cams started getting worse, and by 07 they were neutered badly in the name of emissions. Run a decent bolt in cam in your 09 103 bike, and you'll see a very nice bump up in power. It's relatively common to get 90+hp and 100+ ft lbs with a good cam. Look at the Woods TW-5-6, the Cycle Rama 575 and the SE204 and 255.
If all you do is a stage I, swap to a higher flow air cleaner and slip ons, yes, your ECM will adapt. Better to go to a fuel management device, though, because it will still be lean, and run hot. Add a power commander for a few hundred bucks and your bike will run better and cooler.
Planning on running this 009FLHTP for a while.
Dan B.
Central Ks.
Please correct me if I'm wrong. From my limited understanding, the difference in the closed loop bias table between the stock map and the stage I map is very, very slight, if at all. The closed loop ECM was designed to adjust to exhaust/air cleaner upgrades without having to remap the ECM. The engine won't go any more lean. It will stay right at the OEM closed loop values as long as the ECM is communicating with the O2 sensors. The HD Stage 1 download does not enrichen the closed loop values because of EPA emissions regulations. The open loop fuel mixtures, between 13.8 to 12.5:1, for heavy or full throttle conditions aren't affected regardless.
The stage I download does slightly advance the timing table, which will help decelleration popping. It will still be lean, and I wouldn't want to run a bike in that condition any more than I'd want to run a bike with the stock fuel map.
Incidentally, American Iron recently tested a bike with both slip ons and air cleaner, without the stage I download or any fuel management device whatsoever. The bike made more power, which they suggest it could not have done if it was running any leaner than stock. I think it was in AIM that I first read the theory that you didn't need to buy the download just to add stage I air cleaner and mufflers on the 07 and newer bikes.
The stage I download does slightly advance the timing table, which will help decelleration popping. It will still be lean, and I wouldn't want to run a bike in that condition any more than I'd want to run a bike with the stock fuel map.
Incidentally, American Iron recently tested a bike with both slip ons and air cleaner, without the stage I download or any fuel management device whatsoever. The bike made more power, which they suggest it could not have done if it was running any leaner than stock. I think it was in AIM that I first read the theory that you didn't need to buy the download just to add stage I air cleaner and mufflers on the 07 and newer bikes.
I totally disagree with AIM's theory then. HD has the bikes set up to run 12.8:1 A/F in the 100% throttle position. When AIM did a pull they were running leaner than that, (they had to be). Even if the o2's would correct they wouldn't for their dyno pull because the o2's are turned off in wide open throttle. So how could the bike they tested and made more power with not be running leaner than stock? I didn't read the article, but did tey report about the overall rideability of the bike? Or did they just say it made more power? our shop bought an Ultra Classic at auction last summer. It was a '08. We thought it was bone stock. Had stock pipes and stock air box on it. When we took delivery the bike ran like total crap. The pipes looked extremely yellow so I threw it up on the dyno to check a/f. Sure it enough, it was running way to lean. Somewhere around 15.5 - 16.0:1. When I took the a/c cover off, someone had installed a K&N filter in the stock air box. Put a stock one back in and the bike ran fine. Try it. Take your A/C cover off and go for a ride. See how it does.