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From: American by Birth, SOUTHERN by the Grace of GOD!
Another answer for you ripsaw, the shop checked the fuel pressure without the engine running and quickly assumed that it wasn't the problem! They even told me that the pressure was where it should be! I went back to the dealership and spoke to the tech and he just did not want to believe that it was the problem until I showed him all the crap I removed from the tank! I even took pictures of the fuel pump inlet stopped up with that foam stuff and showed him that! He scratched his head and again stated that the pressure was ok, however he did state that from now on, they were going to ride the bikes with the pressure gauge inline to determine proper pressure throughout the RPM range! Maybe he will and maybe he won't! My guess is he forgot all about what I had told him and will assume that a coil, crank sensor, temp sensor, corrosion on wires, and loose connectors will always be the problem! Makes more money that way!
From: American by Birth, SOUTHERN by the Grace of GOD!
Sorry, I deleted the pics from my phone, but the inlet is about 3/8" in size and didn't hold too much! I plucked it out with a toothpick! If your strainer/ sock is in good shape, you shouldn't have a problem! Hope this helps and I wish I had kept the pics!
Sorry, I deleted the pics from my phone, but the inlet is about 3/8" in size and didn't hold too much! I plucked it out with a toothpick! If your strainer/ sock is in good shape, you shouldn't have a problem! Hope this helps and I wish I had kept the pics!
Hey no prob, thanks for the quick response. I was just wondering if you could use a cheap borescope from ebay to inspect the inside of the tank.
Another answer for you ripsaw, the shop checked the fuel pressure without the engine running and quickly assumed that it wasn't the problem! They even told me that the pressure was where it should be! I went back to the dealership and spoke to the tech and he just did not want to believe that it was the problem until I showed him all the crap I removed from the tank
What fooled the mechanic was the input sock was gone. On a fuel injection bike, the fuel pressure is a set value around 55psi. The duration on how long electric current is supplied to the injectors determine fuel amount. There is always an excess of fuel being discharged from the relief valve at idle or wide open throttle since the fuel pump runs all the time when engine runs and pumps two time what engine can use. In your case after riding a while the floating crud was being sucked into the small inlet. When the bike was shut off, a small amount of fuel was coming back out of the inlet, opening the hole. You did replace both the inlet sock and the fuel filter?? There is actually a small screen in the injectors that if the actual fuel filter were to get damaged would stop up and destroy the injectors.
My 09 acts like that after 3 or 4 hundred miles (varies) I can always fix it by tightening the battery connections (usually less than a quarter turn) Hope that helps.
From: American by Birth, SOUTHERN by the Grace of GOD!
Originally Posted by Cruzn34
Good questions and I will try to answer the best I can:
(1) The engine did idle because the fuel pressure was at a point where a lot of fuel wasn't being consumed so the pump could keep up! But after running it to the point of acting up, when I did let it come to an idle, the idle was noticeably higher for a few seconds before returning back to normal! That was one of the questions I asked the mechanic about, but since I didn't know anything and he was the expert, my query fell on deaf ears! But I did notice that the engine was running better at idle than at a part throttle run! I did mention in one of my posts that after the engine started running so ragged at one point almost shutting down,when I let it idle for a minute, it ran fine for about another 5 or 6 miles before starting the misfire and backfiring again! In retrospect I now can see why that the engine ran better at idle and stopping and letting the fuel pressure build back up, it would run for a short ride until it started Running ragged again! Everything pointed to a ignition problem and if I had of just used some common sense and used my ears instead of my opinion, I might have noticed that when the engine started its misfire, it sounded li,e it was running out of gas instead of a misfiring cylinder! The engine codes messed me up too and if one had of popped up pointing to a fuel pressure problem, it would of saved me lots of money and frustration! But maybe I should of looked at the " non combustion" codes with a different attitude and not assumed it meant a non firing spark plug!
(2). The fuel sock that I replaced had disintegrated to the point where only the plastic clip that holds it to the bottom of the pump was left intact. The rest of the plastic was in the tank, but most of the foam like residue was missing. Now I said most, I did get a very small amount out of the bottom of the tank, but where the rest went is any bodies guess. The new one was a screen with a foam insert much like a baffle that keeps the fuel from sloshing to a point where the pump might suck air and I can understand why that is because autos have some sort of baffling in order to keep fuel slosh to a minimum. As far as the deterioration of the old one, I found through going back to the original owner ( I called 2 people that previously owned this bike) that he bike had sat for an extended period from one owner to the next and the last owner, not the one I bought it from, only rode the bike a total of 1210 miles in a 16 month period. He also said that it sat up for about a year before he sold it. The boy I bought it from owned it for 5 weeks and spent nearly $325 on repairs associated with this problem before putting it up for sale! Guess he thought it was a lemon!
Working on outboard motors and cars these past years especially during this period of Ethynol fuel, I have found that the Ethynol present in outboards and lawn equipment causes more problems than autos because the boats, lawn equipment, motorcycles, and other non Daily use gasoline engines are more prone to having fuel problems! Several years ago I had to replace fuel lines and fuel filters on nearly every boat and motor that came in and my lawn equipment had fuel lines just crack and crumble due to Ethynol and just about everybody I knew brought their lawn stuff to me to replace lines and rebuild the carbs! So I am a believer in what Ethynol can do to a gas engine!!
Hope this answers some of your questions. I tried to explain the answers as best I could!
Originally Posted by RIPSAW
What fooled the mechanic was the input sock was gone. On a fuel injection bike, the fuel pressure is a set value around 55psi. The duration on how long electric current is supplied to the injectors determine fuel amount. There is always an excess of fuel being discharged from the relief valve at idle or wide open throttle since the fuel pump runs all the time when engine runs and pumps two time what engine can use. In your case after riding a while the floating crud was being sucked into the small inlet. When the bike was shut off, a small amount of fuel was coming back out of the inlet, opening the hole. You did replace both the inlet sock and the fuel filter?? There is actually a small screen in the injectors that if the actual fuel filter were to get damaged would stop up and destroy the injectors.
I changed every filter I could change and the fuel filter had some of that crud in it! It didn't pass through the filter into the injectors, but I wonder about the fuel pump! It seems to be running great for now and in the back of my mind I am waiting for the fuel pump to crap out! Maybe I am worrying for nothing, but when you don't worry, that's when things start to happen,or at least in my case! After years of doing mechanic work, I can't enjoy a ride on a bike or in a car without listening for those little gremlins to start to work!
High mileage will finally wear the brush out is what kills fuel pumps. You have about 140K more to go. At the rate on your bike I figure you have about 93 years left on that pump.
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