Power Vision Information Thread
Stellar HDF Member
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 2,928
Likes: 117
From: Ashby, Ma
Jim... I dont think anything in the crank table changes during an auto tune...at least that i know of and i havent really looked into it because im not that energetic....what i can say is mine did the same thing. i saw an earlier ( many pages back) that some one else had experianced the same thing. After some AT runs the bike took a few more cranks to get started. he had emailed fuelmoto or dynojet ( cant remember which ) and they asked him to do a test.
If i remember right the test was to hit the start switch right away after turning the bike on. I assume this was meaning dont wait for your little yellow engine light to go out. See if it starts up easier.
the out come escapes me also....but anyway mine did same as yours after making some AT runs, seems like she needed a second more to catch and fire. i didnt do anything to it as it never bothered me. This happens after the motor is warmed up. At a cold start it fires off real good.
Dont sweat the little things. If it starts ok, but a second later....its all good. If you do change the table a bit i think your smart enough to know if you need to add fuel or take away fuel and so on. You mainers are O.K.
If i remember right the test was to hit the start switch right away after turning the bike on. I assume this was meaning dont wait for your little yellow engine light to go out. See if it starts up easier.
the out come escapes me also....but anyway mine did same as yours after making some AT runs, seems like she needed a second more to catch and fire. i didnt do anything to it as it never bothered me. This happens after the motor is warmed up. At a cold start it fires off real good.
Dont sweat the little things. If it starts ok, but a second later....its all good. If you do change the table a bit i think your smart enough to know if you need to add fuel or take away fuel and so on. You mainers are O.K.
Member
Joined: Jul 2009
Posts: 4,310
Likes: 1,079
Can someone give me a quick run down on how to log a run and then turn it into a file that i can send to fuelmoto?
Ive only done AT to the maps that fuelmoto sent me, i have no idea how to mess with it on my PC, i just cant get rid of some decel popping and some in between shift popping no matter how many AT runs i make.
Thanks
Ive only done AT to the maps that fuelmoto sent me, i have no idea how to mess with it on my PC, i just cant get rid of some decel popping and some in between shift popping no matter how many AT runs i make.
Thanks
WinPV has a default and will store the file on the computer. Go to this folder and copy the map file and insert into the email. There's a separate arrow that will let you download the last datalog you ran. "Get" this file and copy from the location that WinPV saves it to. Insert this file into your email and send to Jamie.
Its alot easier than it sounds but it may take a few minutes to get oriented in Winpv.
Last edited by Heatwave; May 24, 2013 at 06:41 PM.
Road Captain
Joined: Nov 2012
Posts: 569
Likes: 0
From: USA
Both. It will also affect temperature. In a nutshell, there's a peak efficiency point where the engine makes the best power. Where that point is will be the tricky point for street tunners to find. For the most, we won't ever know. It's a best guess effort based on our seat of the pants feel.
One thing to remember though. Making the best power also means making more heat. This is one area where we can't have our cake and eat it too.
Once you get your timing table set up you'll just have to experiment. For most, if it runs smooth, feels like it has some pep to it, and doesn't ping, you'll be good to go. Keep it a couple degrees below where it pings and you'll be fine. You could even yank a couple more degrees out and see how it feels. I'll bet you won't notice much difference.
Someone posted a good write up about it a while back. Good reading material.
Also remember more is not always better, when it comes to timing. It's kind of like a bell curve. You'll advance as much as you can to get it to ping. Backing off from there is needed as a safety net. Either way, you can advance and get no knock activity. But that isn't a guarantee that your're in the peak efficiency area. You could easily advance right on through the peak, and start coming down the backside, without pinging, and be losing power. It still won't ping, but you'll be losing power. You just need to try and find the ping threshold then back them all off 3 degrees. See how she runs. Experiment and see how she runs. Once you know the ping threshold you have a guage to go away from, and come back to when you experiment. Once you get it to ping copy those cells to an excel spreadsheet if you want. That's what I do in case I have a brain fart or lose a cal.
One thing to remember though. Making the best power also means making more heat. This is one area where we can't have our cake and eat it too.
Once you get your timing table set up you'll just have to experiment. For most, if it runs smooth, feels like it has some pep to it, and doesn't ping, you'll be good to go. Keep it a couple degrees below where it pings and you'll be fine. You could even yank a couple more degrees out and see how it feels. I'll bet you won't notice much difference.
Someone posted a good write up about it a while back. Good reading material.
Also remember more is not always better, when it comes to timing. It's kind of like a bell curve. You'll advance as much as you can to get it to ping. Backing off from there is needed as a safety net. Either way, you can advance and get no knock activity. But that isn't a guarantee that your're in the peak efficiency area. You could easily advance right on through the peak, and start coming down the backside, without pinging, and be losing power. It still won't ping, but you'll be losing power. You just need to try and find the ping threshold then back them all off 3 degrees. See how she runs. Experiment and see how she runs. Once you know the ping threshold you have a guage to go away from, and come back to when you experiment. Once you get it to ping copy those cells to an excel spreadsheet if you want. That's what I do in case I have a brain fart or lose a cal.
Last edited by stailjim61; May 24, 2013 at 03:00 PM.
Road Captain
Joined: Nov 2012
Posts: 569
Likes: 0
From: USA
Okay, at the risk of taking up too much screen space I've captured the VE tables better.
I hope you guys can take another look at these with the background info of the previous tune and also as a percent delta.
Here is the AT03 previous tune tables.
Now the AT04 latest AT run
Finally the delta percents
I hope you guys can take another look at these with the background info of the previous tune and also as a percent delta.
Here is the AT03 previous tune tables.
Now the AT04 latest AT run
Finally the delta percents
Road Captain
Joined: Oct 2011
Posts: 523
Likes: 1
From: kingston ontario
3 more AT runs and you should be good. Still alot of highs and lows in the lower rpms. But they should come around as long as you're hitting them. Are you paying attention to the green screen hit count as your tuning? Those cells are the eaiest to hit when out on a run. But, are the toughest to get good results in. If you have any reversion going on that's where it going to be most prevalent. I probably spend 2/3rd's of an AT run working up to 3000 hard, getting the most hits. The rest is a breeze. Try to collect as much data as you can in the upper left corner. As you can see the cruise range comes along pretty quick but you need to work the upper left more.
it is obvious you have some familiarity with reversion, tho i am not ready to play with it yet i am just curios if you have played with the egr tables, and if so why ?
Road Captain
Joined: Oct 2011
Posts: 523
Likes: 1
From: kingston ontario
the numbers in the colored cells represent the number of times you have hit that cell.
the goal is to hit as many cells as you can as many times as you can.
example.... at 2750 rpm and 10 percent throttle position you have hit that cell at least 99 times, that is good compared to 3000 rpm and 2 percent throttle position in that cell it shows only 6 hits.
personally i also use the log start button at the bottom of the screen so i can review the data on the computer, helps me understand/learn what is going on and also to find any real issues i may have (if any)
with a little practice you will get good at hitting a wide range of cells many times.... really helps to build an accurate VE table for your bike.
Last edited by goats; May 24, 2013 at 08:12 PM.
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Extreme HDF Member
Joined: Aug 2012
Posts: 11,392
Likes: 184
From: Big ol Titties
One thing I like to do is hit the mode button and cycle through to the last screen that shows a zoomed in of the cell you are in. Makes it really easy to targets specific cells and see where you are in each cell.
Last edited by Uncle Chester; May 24, 2013 at 08:59 PM.
Stellar HDF Member
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 2,928
Likes: 117
From: Ashby, Ma
3 more AT runs and you should be good. Still alot of highs and lows in the lower rpms. But they should come around as long as you're hitting them. Are you paying attention to the green screen hit count as your tuning? Those cells are the eaiest to hit when out on a run. But, are the toughest to get good results in. If you have any reversion going on that's where it going to be most prevalent. I probably spend 2/3rd's of an AT run working up to 3000 hard, getting the most hits. The rest is a breeze. Try to collect as much data as you can in the upper left corner. As you can see the cruise range comes along pretty quick but you need to work the upper left more.
I haven't had the PV mounted on the handlebar so I could watch the AT log, so I wasn't paying any attention to the green screen. However I ordered and got the mounting kit this week and it just got to my house, so I'll install it and will start watching my hit count.
If it stops raining I'll get started again but may not happen till Monday or Tuesday up here in the hills.
Thanks for the review/advice!!
Steve