Originally Posted by uwiik

Bought my PV yesterday after three weeks messing around with my SEPST to the point of insanity. Couldn't even describe the feeling I have right now, very happy and mad at the same time, I feel like frying my SEPST and feed it to my nosy neighbour if I could...The 'Stupid tune' feature was hopeless and data record function is blind to knock event in SEPST, it would log 0 retard when I hear very audible pinging.. I had to rely on my AEM AFR sniffer to set my VE tables.

I thought I had my SEPST tune pretty close and the AFR reading after my 3 weeks of madness was OK with a fair bit of inconsistency, blamed it on my exhaust sniffer, turned out I was DEAD wrong!! After ONE 20 min Power Vision Autotune Basic session (No PC) now my AFR meter woud read perfect target AFR to the dots on steady throttle!! I realized that my AFR meter with the DIY sniffer was working perfectly and super accurate, it was the SEPST that has been giving me the inconsistent result. Now after Power Vision the bike feel soooo much smoother, sounds so much smoother and the pipe has a nice deep smooth throathy rumble on it I never hear before... Perfect...I will do a few more Autotune Basic to perfect the VE tables and will create multiple tunes for different conditions from there...

Now the big question....

I noticed from the gauges that I am having knock retard event, I would like to tune that out. I am familiar about how to read maps and how to work on timing advance/retard for maximum efficiency Without a dyno to tell you what's happening we'll never know where that perfect pressure point is for efficiency. Seat of the pants, smoothness, and lack of pinging is about the best we can expect from a garage tune. and to elliminate knocking but I am confused as which tuning/logging/calculation method to use, Autotune Basic or Log Tuner?? Some people says that after I perfect the VE tables, I can activate spark learning on Autotune Basic by switching 'Max Spark Learn' to 10 on setting and ignore further VE correction by turning 'Max VE Learn' to 0 then run Autotune basic session as normal but focusing on spark event only and tune from there. However, Dynojet instruction advises against this on Autotune basic?? The ultimate end result is where the ECM has to do as little as possible. The less it has to learn and store means the less calculating it has to do = smoother more reliable tune. If you're dealing with timing and knock events the last thing I would do is ignore any VE corrections. If it's a lean knock, fix it. If it's a high temp knock, fix it. If it's an over advanced knock, fix it. Yes, the system would probably take care of it, but I'm not a big fan of ignoring issues and over-taxing the ECM to sort it out.

I know Log Tuner is what everyone use, but I am not comfortable with it yet and I like the fact that Autotune basic can be setup and done without the use of PC at all and I am already comfortable with its simplicity with automatic set to CL table, automatic off to AE/DE/PE/EITMS vs. having to do it manually on Log Tuner....If I can use Spark Learning on Autotune Basic, I don't think I will ever use Log Tuner.

Advises are so much appreciated and thank you very much in advance!

Originally Posted by stailjim61

Is anyone using this software? I have been reading a little about it. Just curious if it's something that could be used to analyze a tune after the last VE runs are accomplished. I searched for a forum to follow but couldn't find anything specific to Harley's, just bits and pieces.

Originally Posted by Uncle Chester

I prefer logtuner to make timing changes after I have my VE's dialed in. Mostly this is due to AT changing to many parameters for me to trust the timing changes it makes. When I'm out riding my AFR table is not set to 14.6 across the board and my timing is not retarded 4 degrees to start with. My actual map may or may not have the same knock events as the ones I mIght see in AT mode. In order to use log tuner for timing changes you don't need to turn off AE/DE/PE/EITMS or anything else. Just go out and ride, I will do some roll ons and find a few hills in order to really load the engine and hit the higher MAP areas as that is when it is most likely to ping. The only time you need to turn off the AE/DE/PE/EITMS is if you are doing your whole tune on log tuner and you are calibrating your VE's. Also if you only have a couple areas of the map seeing knock events you can just view your log in excel and make manual changes as needed.

Originally Posted by stailjim61

Originally Posted by uwiik

Oh, didn't know about that. So if I am only targetting specific ping on log tuner and not working with VE I do not need to touch AE/DE/PE/EITMS? Do I need to set AFR to Closed Loop with 4* timing retard or I can just leave it as I set it?

I am running open loop 100% on city riding due to the fact that I always ride on 100F+ with a lot of stop and go traffic, planning to build second map with cruise area on closed loop for out of town riding.

Thank you for the advises...

Originally Posted by Uncle Chester

No need to go closed loop or retard timing 4 degrees, just log a normal ride, maybe get after it a little more than normal in order to hit as many high load areas of your map as you can. That way when you are tuning any knock events out you are tuning them out under actual riding conditions on your actual tune. If you go into closed loop or retard your timing, then you may induce knock in areas that your actual tune is fine running in. Same goes for retarding the timing, it may hide areas that you would see knock events in your regular tune.

I understand what you are talking about as far as running a open loop as well. I see pretty similar temps where I am located, highest them I road in this summer was just shy of 120 degrees. I leave my cruise range set at 14.2 and that is as lean as I go. I see some pretty extreme temp swings as well winter time I will see temps in the 15 degree range. I actually set up two separate tunes last year when my motor was 96" and will do the same this year with my 107". That way i will have a winter tune and a summer tune. Might not be necessary but I enjoy the tuning process and it gives me a excuse to go out and ride.

Originally Posted by uwiik

Hahaha, I know what are you talking about, I don't know about you but I actually prefer to ride in 100+ temp rather than 32- temp, did a fair bit of cold weather riding during my younger age when I was living in Australia, the extreme cold is much more tormenting than extreme heat when riding motorcycle in my opinion, off course 70-80 would be perfect but we can't have it all can't we?

So here are my conclusion, please correct me if I am wrong.

- I am comfortable with simple Autotune, and I think for VE tuning only it is still pretty accurate judging from my AFR sniffer reading, so I can stick with this method to perfect my VE before moving to Log Tuner to tune my Spark Knock.
- When it is time to play around with my timing, I will then move to Log Tuner. However, since I will be tuning Spark Knock ONLY, I do not need to retard 4* of timing, no need full CL table, no need to 0 DE/AE/PE/EITMS. Just ride it with ALL setting as I would normally ride while logging and calculate ONLY the Spark Knock table after I am done logging?

You need to log the 11 channels that regard to the cal your running. I would still see what the VE's look like, even if you don't recalibrate them. If they're solid no problem. You collected data, might as well look at them. If, for no other reason, you can see where a knock event happened, and then look at the VE. I always look at the VE's to see if there's a correlation to a low VE and a knock event. Map cal easier to interpret than a TP cal.

- If that's the case, then on PV's Datalog/Assign Signals setting I DO NOT need to include VE NEW F&R and DOES include the rest of the logging parameters (MAP, TP, ET, AE, ES, Desired Lambda/AFR, Warmup Lambda/AFR, Spark Knock Retards F&R) and subsequently do so when exporting to Log Tuner software and do the calculation?

Again, log the respective channels that pertain to your tune. AFR or Lambda. There are 11 if I recall correctly. If you're only working timing then just pull the tick marks out of VE fr and rr when the box pops up. This has all been covered in previous threads.

- Kinda got a hint of the answer of the above questions from your reply and posts on page 543, but I wasn't 100% sure and need to have a firm confirmation for my analytical thinking. Sorry if I am repeating the
questions.

Don't overcomplicate this. Follow the instructions. Log the appropriate channels. Create a .ppv. Let LT do the rest. Rinse and repeat until you don't pick up any knock hits. Using LT you should be able to get it right in 3 or 4 runs. Then tweak for annoying vibrations in any riding areas. Search the thread, there are tons of instructions on how to attack it.

Thank you very much for the helpful advises, so much appreciated!!...

Originally Posted by stailjim61