Just received my PV today and loaded the map. Before taking it out I decided to review the AFR table. Is it normal for the custom map table to have almost exclusively 14.6 showing? The reason I'm asking is the map notes don't say anything other than Dyna with no mention of the air cleaner or 2 into 1.

I guess I just expected to see the AFR set closer to the 13.5 - 13.8 level as I thought that was what made the best power. Any help would be appreciated, even if it's too say I'm an idiot and that's normal.


Just for fun I downloaded a map from dynojet and their 2 into 1 maps are readily different. From3000 RPM until redline it isn't set at 14.5 but instead 13.5. Which was more what I thought I would see.

 

you need to keep in mind that the calibration your were sent is NOT a final calibration. If you're going to tune it in closed-loop then leave it alone and run your tunes. If you want to tune for other needs, then change your AFRs to your desired values and tune it.

 

LA Dog, I'm not sure what Devildoc's problem is, it well could be he is running way too lean, and the AFR table is definetly where to work that issue. But, I'd like to clarify the point you made on Autotune and what it will do, as it is not to my understanding.

The point of Autotune is to get the VE table as accurate as possible, not just in the cruise range where AFR is normally set to 14.6 for efficient clean burn running, but accross the map. The reason for this is the unknown in getting the right tune is to clearly get both the Fuel and Air correct. The Fuel is a given.. we use the AFR table to increase or decrease fuel. However, we've changed the air filter, we've changed the pipes, so the air flow (ie Volmetric Efficiency) is an unknown. We need to get that right, so that when the desired new/tuned AFR is applied to the VEs to result in the correct air/fuel mix, that it is correct. it does this by getting the VEs right, across the map.

Since the stock 02 sensors are "narrowband" and only accurate at 14.6 and slightly above and below, we need to set the entire map to 14.6 so the sensors can accurately be used to determine the VE. So Autotune temporarily sets the entire map to 14.6 and then (to protect the engine) it retards the time 4 degrees. Now you run Autotune and it builds a new VE table based on the build of your specific bike, with the Airfilter/Pipes you put on.

Then, after you apply the new VEs to the "run" map, the new accurate VEs are applied to the whole map/rpm range, and the adjusted, (richened) AFRs that you have set are applied.

So that's the point, AT uses 14.6 only because that's where the sensors work well. But we use that knowledge to discover the correct VEs across the entire map during Autotune run time. So once you revert back to your new final tune, you now have accurate VEs across the RPM Range, not just the cruise area.

Sorry if I've repeated myself here. If my understanding is wrong on this, I'm willing to be corrected, however I think i've got this right.

 

Well said.

 

Thanks for the response ultra that makes sense.

 

Yep you are on the right track with all of that, but narrow band 02 is not going to be able to accurately tune VE's outside of a "normal" range such as cruising, low / medium load and idle. I would not be hitting WOT tuning runs or hard pulls off the line, or heavy throttle roll-ons from cruise with the timing retarded 4 degrees and 14.6 AFR, that's a good way to mess up the motor. All the NB tuning is going to to is help with a more economical tune and adjusting for variances such as pipes and intake (to a degree).

You are 100% correct that tuned VE's are the key, and the only way to correctly hit the defined target AFR's. However, you need wide band O2 (or a dyno) for any sort of meaningful performance tuning across the entire VE table, and tune to a more richer, performance oriented value such as 13.1, and without retarded timing so you can actually ride it to hit all of the VE areas.

I think NB tuning is fine for average daily riding and economy. but just don't expect much out of it beyond that. it will not fix decel popping, bike running hot, or other performance related items. You can actually tune the bike a lot better by logging your rides, then reviewing and understanding the logged data using software like Excel, MyTune and MegaLogViewer to make meaningful changes to VE's, spark and AFR.

I'm waiting patiently for the new TargetTune wide band tuning product to come out from DJ. No word yet though. Now that will be the cat's ***** from what I've read on it.

I don't mean to sound smarty-pants or anything this is just what I have studied and learned about the HD Delphi system, plus a few solid pointers and guidance from an expert tuner, and it seems to work out quite well.

 

Since got a lot of help to a couple of issues I was encountering on this thread, I am posting an update.
Re-routed my powervision cable to eliminate interference from the coil and spark plug wires causing the gauge data to disappear and screen freezing while riding. Rerouting the cable works. No freezing, no disappearing gauge data.

Sent my Powervision custom autotune to Jamie at FuelMoto. Got is back and took bike out for a test run. No more decel popping and smoother lower-end. Thanks Jamie.

Custom Autotune


Custom autotune modified by Jamie


Jamie made adjustments to the VE tables, Decel enleanment, as well as the AF table. Love how the bike runs now. ET running 360-380
Thank you everyone for your help....and thanks for the tips on Windows snipping tool!

 

Makes sense about the cable being too close to the high voltage spark plug lines- EMF interference. Thanks for sharing.

Glad Jamie got you straightened out- this is a perfect example where AT basic is only going to do so much - Advanced tuning needs like this can only be done by an experienced person such as Jamie, on a dyno, or by taking the (arduous) time to learn Delphi tuning / review your logged ride data, and make the needed changes yourself.

I might suggest changing the AFR table 70, 75, 80 columns to all 13.2 - whenever you are at 70 MAP or higher you are into acceleration territory, and having the added fuel will give a bit better pull as well as keep engine temps lower under medium to higher load. maybe ask Jamie and see what he says.

 

@LA Dog - Thanks for the suggestion. Will ask Jamie. And you are correct in saying to leave the advanced tuning stuff to the experts...I would have only adjusted the decel enleanment and would have not thought of changing VE or AF tables.

 

Aloha Friday brah- hope you get some good riding in this weekend, especially now with the improved tune!