Power Vision Information Thread
Advanced
Joined: Dec 2015
Posts: 68
Likes: 3
From: Hawaii
Just know tho, once I open your tune, it will strip the TT info from it as I am not set up for TT. The datalogs will show the WB sensors. The guys from Fuel Moto will be able to check it out. Wish I had purchased my PV from them. When the time comes for TT I will be purchasing from Fuel Moto. Customer Service is unbeatable.
Advanced
Joined: Dec 2015
Posts: 68
Likes: 3
From: Hawaii
LA Dog,
I can see the difference between the two tunes but I'm assuming those are the changes you made. The tune does say that Target Tune is enabled so may be that is a good start. Datalog will be the point of knowing what is going on. Jamie gave much better insight on it than I can.
On the FBW bikes, I have an '08 touring but when I loaded a tune with MAP-based VE values it gave me nothing but trouble. I'm currently running a TPS-based tune and it seems much better. Been a long couple of days trying to get it dialed in.
I can see the difference between the two tunes but I'm assuming those are the changes you made. The tune does say that Target Tune is enabled so may be that is a good start. Datalog will be the point of knowing what is going on. Jamie gave much better insight on it than I can.
On the FBW bikes, I have an '08 touring but when I loaded a tune with MAP-based VE values it gave me nothing but trouble. I'm currently running a TPS-based tune and it seems much better. Been a long couple of days trying to get it dialed in.
Outstanding HDF Member
Joined: Jun 2014
Posts: 3,185
Likes: 189
From: 90210
Ollie- the TT stuff is hidden in calibrations that are not visible in WinPV, so a TT enabled tune file would look identical to a non-TT-enabled tune file. I have heard that before on the map based vs tps based tuning. some prefer to use tps based. At least you have that option to use either so that is nice. Why don't you post up some of the tuning issues you are having and maybe a copy of your tune. Lots of knowledgeable members here.
I purchased my PV from a dealership before I knew about FM. In hindsight I would definitely buy it from FM as they are (AFAIK) the only distributor able to properly support the product at both basic and advanced levels. Any help that Jamie provides here for my questions / issues is certainly appreciated but not expected.
I purchased my PV from a dealership before I knew about FM. In hindsight I would definitely buy it from FM as they are (AFAIK) the only distributor able to properly support the product at both basic and advanced levels. Any help that Jamie provides here for my questions / issues is certainly appreciated but not expected.
Outstanding HDF Member
Joined: Jun 2014
Posts: 3,185
Likes: 189
From: 90210
BTW I'm running WinPV version 2.0.19 - which is a version newer than is available on the DJ website. It has a fix in it for correct table size scaling on high res screens set to use larger fonts, such as a Macbook pro w/ retina running Windows. Otherwise the table cell numbers truncate (you see 12... instead of 12.5 or 10... instead of 101) and tuning is impossible. I have an email in to DJ to see if this non-release version has issue with TT-enabled tune files.
Outstanding HDF Member
Joined: Jun 2014
Posts: 3,185
Likes: 189
From: 90210
read the ECM DTC's and am seeing the following codes- never had these before adding the TT module and TT-enabled tune. Also pulled a complete diagnostic stk file. Will try and get some help from DJ.
---------------------
Beginning operation: ReadDTCs
PV Serial #: (omitted)
Firmware Version: 2.0.19-1506
Firmware Build Date: Jul 27 2015 14:34:40
Tune Database Version: 0.0.9.37
Enabled Pins: TUN
Tuning: Locked to Vehicle
P1632 HIST
Odometer learned up
U0156 HIST
Lost comm w/speedo
Operation Returned 0:
End of operation.
---------------------------
---------------------
Beginning operation: ReadDTCs
PV Serial #: (omitted)
Firmware Version: 2.0.19-1506
Firmware Build Date: Jul 27 2015 14:34:40
Tune Database Version: 0.0.9.37
Enabled Pins: TUN
Tuning: Locked to Vehicle
P1632 HIST
Odometer learned up
U0156 HIST
Lost comm w/speedo
Operation Returned 0:
End of operation.
---------------------------
Outstanding HDF Member
Joined: Jun 2014
Posts: 3,185
Likes: 189
From: 90210
So I'm about to go do some logging in about an hour. from my reading and understanding of operation this is what I feel may be happening.
1. when I am in TT auto tune mode, the ECM and TT module and working as expected and I am getting real time adjustments to VE to hit the target lambda values. hence bike is running very good, strong, no cracking on decel, etc. (runs very good in fact - best yet!)
2. when I am in normal mode, TT auto tune disabled, ECM is using VE as set in the tune file and not adjusting it to meet target lambda values. VE's are very lean in the tune file compared to what I have been running with my past manual tunes. hence bike has less power, feels hotter, exhaust smells lean, exhaust has different tone, more cracking on decel. In my tune file I do have closed loop = 1 so it should be running full closed loop operation. My leanest AFR table value is 13.8 at present.
This could lead me to conclude that for whatever reason the TT tune file has been stripped or disabled of that functionality. Running a TT auto tune session may just force ECM to use real time WB and VE adjustments regardless.
Just wild speculation at this point- logging a normal ride should show more. The P error code may mean that for some reason the ECM may not be fully powering down properly. Wondering if leaving the PV plugged in after shutting off bike has anything to do with that. I only started doing that recently, e.g. leave it plugged in and tucked in the swingarm bag.
1. when I am in TT auto tune mode, the ECM and TT module and working as expected and I am getting real time adjustments to VE to hit the target lambda values. hence bike is running very good, strong, no cracking on decel, etc. (runs very good in fact - best yet!)
2. when I am in normal mode, TT auto tune disabled, ECM is using VE as set in the tune file and not adjusting it to meet target lambda values. VE's are very lean in the tune file compared to what I have been running with my past manual tunes. hence bike has less power, feels hotter, exhaust smells lean, exhaust has different tone, more cracking on decel. In my tune file I do have closed loop = 1 so it should be running full closed loop operation. My leanest AFR table value is 13.8 at present.
This could lead me to conclude that for whatever reason the TT tune file has been stripped or disabled of that functionality. Running a TT auto tune session may just force ECM to use real time WB and VE adjustments regardless.
Just wild speculation at this point- logging a normal ride should show more. The P error code may mean that for some reason the ECM may not be fully powering down properly. Wondering if leaving the PV plugged in after shutting off bike has anything to do with that. I only started doing that recently, e.g. leave it plugged in and tucked in the swingarm bag.
Last edited by LA_Dog; Feb 8, 2016 at 11:10 AM.
So I'm about to go do some logging in about an hour. from my reading and understanding of operation this is what I feel may be happening.
1. when I am in TT auto tune mode, the ECM and TT module and working as expected and I am getting real time adjustments to VE to hit the target lambda values. hence bike is running very good, strong, no cracking on decel, etc. (runs very good in fact - best yet!)
2. when I am in normal mode, TT auto tune disabled, ECM is using VE as set in the tune file and not adjusting it to meet target lambda values. VE's are very lean in the tune file compared to what I have been running with my past manual tunes. hence bike has less power, feels hotter, exhaust smells lean, exhaust has different tone, more cracking on decel. In my tune file I do have closed loop = 1 so it should be running full closed loop operation. My leanest AFR table value is 13.8 at present.
This could lead me to conclude that for whatever reason the TT tune file has been stripped or disabled of that functionality. Running a TT auto tune session may just force ECM to use real time WB and VE adjustments regardless.
Just wild speculation at this point- logging a normal ride should show more. The P error code may mean that for some reason the ECM may not be fully powering down properly. Wondering if leaving the PV plugged in after shutting off bike has anything to do with that. I only started doing that recently, e.g. leave it plugged in and tucked in the swingarm bag.
1. when I am in TT auto tune mode, the ECM and TT module and working as expected and I am getting real time adjustments to VE to hit the target lambda values. hence bike is running very good, strong, no cracking on decel, etc. (runs very good in fact - best yet!)
2. when I am in normal mode, TT auto tune disabled, ECM is using VE as set in the tune file and not adjusting it to meet target lambda values. VE's are very lean in the tune file compared to what I have been running with my past manual tunes. hence bike has less power, feels hotter, exhaust smells lean, exhaust has different tone, more cracking on decel. In my tune file I do have closed loop = 1 so it should be running full closed loop operation. My leanest AFR table value is 13.8 at present.
This could lead me to conclude that for whatever reason the TT tune file has been stripped or disabled of that functionality. Running a TT auto tune session may just force ECM to use real time WB and VE adjustments regardless.
Just wild speculation at this point- logging a normal ride should show more. The P error code may mean that for some reason the ECM may not be fully powering down properly. Wondering if leaving the PV plugged in after shutting off bike has anything to do with that. I only started doing that recently, e.g. leave it plugged in and tucked in the swingarm bag.
__________________
Jamie Long / Fuel Moto USA
The USA's Leader V-Twin EFI & Performance www.fuelmotousa.com
Contact 920-423-3309
Email jamie@fuelmotousa.com
Jamie Long / Fuel Moto USA
The USA's Leader V-Twin EFI & Performance www.fuelmotousa.com
Contact 920-423-3309
Email jamie@fuelmotousa.com
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Target Tune does not use the O2 heaters as this is controlled by the TT module. Also note Target Tune is enabled correctly in the tunes you posted.
Last edited by fuelmoto; Feb 8, 2016 at 12:44 PM.
Outstanding HDF Member
Joined: Jun 2014
Posts: 3,185
Likes: 189
From: 90210
Thank you Jamie- And I appreciate your time. I just got back from logging rides- I used the (auto) WideBand Tuning data set plus added the F/R WB O2 sensors. I will do another run if you don't see what is needed - figured I'd post what I got.
The green screen is indeed showing hit counts during a TT AT session. But it is not making VE changes. It always shows “0 hits” and 0 changes after I get back from a TT AT ride session.
If I ride bike with TT auto tune on, the bike runs well and is fast. If I ride bike in normal mode it does not run as well and feels flat.
I have included two logs in the attached zip file-
log0000 is bike in normal operation mode no auto tune enabled, warming up and then a short ride. Look at the WB O2 AFRs. They are odd and have quite a disparity between F/R cylinder ratios. I don’t have any 14 AFR ratios in my lambda table. bike feels like less power, a lot more decel popping, etc. Anyway it's noticeable SOTP and just doesn't feel right. the AFR's are certainly not on the overly lean side but sure feels like it.
Now look at log0001 – which is logged data during an enabled TT auto tune session. Bike runs stronger, more power- but obviously I see why now, because the WB O2’s are reporting extra rich!
Both of these logs use the tune file I posted- thanks for confirming it is indeed still TT enabled.
I tried calling DJ for help this morning- got through to a tech at the consumer tuning devices extension- asked some questions and the tech said "uhh well I don't really know anything about tuning or the tuning products" - said he'd have someone call me back asap. that was hours ago and nothing. just so you know I'm trying the usual support avenues but it's not ideal, unfortunately.
The green screen is indeed showing hit counts during a TT AT session. But it is not making VE changes. It always shows “0 hits” and 0 changes after I get back from a TT AT ride session.
If I ride bike with TT auto tune on, the bike runs well and is fast. If I ride bike in normal mode it does not run as well and feels flat.
I have included two logs in the attached zip file-
log0000 is bike in normal operation mode no auto tune enabled, warming up and then a short ride. Look at the WB O2 AFRs. They are odd and have quite a disparity between F/R cylinder ratios. I don’t have any 14 AFR ratios in my lambda table. bike feels like less power, a lot more decel popping, etc. Anyway it's noticeable SOTP and just doesn't feel right. the AFR's are certainly not on the overly lean side but sure feels like it.
Now look at log0001 – which is logged data during an enabled TT auto tune session. Bike runs stronger, more power- but obviously I see why now, because the WB O2’s are reporting extra rich!
Both of these logs use the tune file I posted- thanks for confirming it is indeed still TT enabled.
I tried calling DJ for help this morning- got through to a tech at the consumer tuning devices extension- asked some questions and the tech said "uhh well I don't really know anything about tuning or the tuning products" - said he'd have someone call me back asap. that was hours ago and nothing. just so you know I'm trying the usual support avenues but it's not ideal, unfortunately.
Last edited by LA_Dog; Feb 8, 2016 at 02:21 PM.