Power Vision Information Thread
Target Tune is actually a huge step forward in HD EFI tuning, not sure how someone could place judgement on this brand new product, its going to be a game changer. The single biggest attribute to Target Tune is it ability to correct/maintain a tune with live wideband O2 sensors over the entire calibration, this is huge. The stock narrowband O2 sensors can only sample from approx 14.3-15.2 AF, the ECM can only use O2 feedback for fuel corrections in lighter load areas where a mixture near stoich (14.6 AF) is requested, anywhere a richer mixture is required such as mid-upper RPM, higher loads, & wide open throttle is open loop (no O2 sensor correction). Target Tune with its Bosch wideband O2 sensors can sample from 11.5-16.5 AF, with a TT compatible calibration this allows us to not only used closed loop correction over the entire map including upper RPM's and WOT, however we can also use the AF targets we are not locked down to stoich AF like the stock sensors, for example if you want 13.8-14.0 AF for cruise/idle it is not problem with Target Tune, we also have re-configured much of the closed loop strategy including the % of the +/- fuel correction from the base map. There is some really cool stuff there and we are really excited to bring this to market.
__________________
Jamie Long / Fuel Moto USA
The USA's Leader V-Twin EFI & Performance www.fuelmotousa.com
Contact 920-423-3309
Email jamie@fuelmotousa.com
Jamie Long / Fuel Moto USA
The USA's Leader V-Twin EFI & Performance www.fuelmotousa.com
Contact 920-423-3309
Email jamie@fuelmotousa.com
Novice
Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 20
Likes: 1
From: Loysville, PA
Jamie,
I certainly was and am excited about this product (Target Tune) but I will say as I had admitted to earlier as a "data peeper" I am a bit disappointed that there is no way to observe the corrections that are taking place ( kinda like when you are auto tuning and see the VE correction values as you ride) by the target tune other than the instantaneous readings of the wideband O2 sensors. In talking to the DynoJet tech support folks yesterday who admittedly have in most cases just gotten trained on this device, as I understand it the changes the target tune make are in long and short term trim values and that there is no way to pull (download) the corrections that have been made and compare in say WinPV. Going into it I had thought it would be possible to do a comparison of the previous tune with what the target tune had changed but as I understand it that is not possible, anyone that knows different I would love to know. As it stands now if I am not mistaken the only real way to judge the performance of the device is seat of the pants......
I certainly was and am excited about this product (Target Tune) but I will say as I had admitted to earlier as a "data peeper" I am a bit disappointed that there is no way to observe the corrections that are taking place ( kinda like when you are auto tuning and see the VE correction values as you ride) by the target tune other than the instantaneous readings of the wideband O2 sensors. In talking to the DynoJet tech support folks yesterday who admittedly have in most cases just gotten trained on this device, as I understand it the changes the target tune make are in long and short term trim values and that there is no way to pull (download) the corrections that have been made and compare in say WinPV. Going into it I had thought it would be possible to do a comparison of the previous tune with what the target tune had changed but as I understand it that is not possible, anyone that knows different I would love to know. As it stands now if I am not mistaken the only real way to judge the performance of the device is seat of the pants......
Last edited by xardoz; Aug 5, 2015 at 02:21 PM.
Jamie,
I certainly was and am excited about this product (Target Tune) but I will say as I had admitted to earlier as a "data peeper" I am a bit disappointed that there is no way to observe the corrections that are taking place ( kinda like when you are auto tuning and see the VE correction values as you ride) by the target tune other than the instantaneous readings of the wideband O2 sensors. In talking to the DynoJet tech support folks yesterday who admittedly have in most cases just gotten trained on this device, as I understand it the changes the target tune make are in long and short term trim values and that there is no way to pull (download) the corrections that have been made and compare in say WinPV. Going into it I had thought it would be possible to do a comparison of the previous tune with what the target tune had changed but as I understand it that is not possible, anyone that knows different I would love to know. As it stands now if I am not mistaken the only real way to judge the performance of the device is seat of the pants......
I certainly was and am excited about this product (Target Tune) but I will say as I had admitted to earlier as a "data peeper" I am a bit disappointed that there is no way to observe the corrections that are taking place ( kinda like when you are auto tuning and see the VE correction values as you ride) by the target tune other than the instantaneous readings of the wideband O2 sensors. In talking to the DynoJet tech support folks yesterday who admittedly have in most cases just gotten trained on this device, as I understand it the changes the target tune make are in long and short term trim values and that there is no way to pull (download) the corrections that have been made and compare in say WinPV. Going into it I had thought it would be possible to do a comparison of the previous tune with what the target tune had changed but as I understand it that is not possible, anyone that knows different I would love to know. As it stands now if I am not mistaken the only real way to judge the performance of the device is seat of the pants......
Road Master
Joined: May 2012
Posts: 773
Likes: 124
From: Between purgatory and retirement
... monitor the front & rear Closed Loop Integrator (CLI) which is short term fuel trim,for long term trims you will view the front & rear Adaptive Fuel Factor (AFF), this value is also stored. These are both multipliers of the base VE table; for example if CLI is 1.05, closed loop is correcting a mixture that was 5% lean in real time, if AFF is .92 it has learned a correction that was 8% rich...
I finally understand those columns in my spreadsheets.
Cruiser
Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 225
Likes: 24
From: Burt, Michigan
New to powervision
Hello, I have recently got a power vision from FM. I have made a couple of auto tunes and my trike is running great. It makes quite a difference. I have been poking through this thread to glean info on how to interpret all the info you can get from the PV as the manual doesn't cover this. Can anyone direct me to where I can find this info in an easier way then picking through this forum. FM has been great about answering questions but that takes a lot of time
Novice
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 23
Likes: 0
From: Langham SK Canada
As I have multiple tune licenses for my power vision, my question relates to the use of target tune on more than one motorcycle. Is it possible to develop a tune using target tune on a specific bike and then remove it, reinstall the narrow band O2 sensors, and use the TT developed tune in the same manner as a normal power vision map?
Hopefully Jamie or Dyno Dan comes across this post, as they are likely the only ones that may be able to answer this question.
Hopefully Jamie or Dyno Dan comes across this post, as they are likely the only ones that may be able to answer this question.
Road Master
Joined: Aug 2014
Posts: 1,035
Likes: 39
From: Olive & Oak
As I have multiple tune licenses for my power vision, my question relates to the use of target tune on more than one motorcycle. Is it possible to develop a tune using target tune on a specific bike and then remove it, reinstall the narrow band O2 sensors, and use the TT developed tune in the same manner as a normal power vision map?
Hopefully Jamie or Dyno Dan comes across this post, as they are likely the only ones that may be able to answer this question.
Hopefully Jamie or Dyno Dan comes across this post, as they are likely the only ones that may be able to answer this question.
You can remove the PV2 but to use it on two TT bikes I believe that you would need two TTs.
Novice
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 23
Likes: 0
From: Langham SK Canada
I believe that the answer is no. When you install TT, the stock O2 sensors and the WB O2 sensors are both installed. The new map uses the WB O2 sensors, so I don't see how it would be possible to remove them without removing the TT and reverting to a non-TT tune.
You can remove the PV2 but to use it on two TT bikes I believe that you would need two TTs.
You can remove the PV2 but to use it on two TT bikes I believe that you would need two TTs.
It is my understanding that the stock NB sensors are replaced by the WB sensors when installing the TT kit. Only the WB's are installed and the NB's aren't used at all. The question remains, if you remove the TT, what are you left with for a map in the power vision, or do you have to re-flash a previous map?
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Road Master
Joined: Aug 2014
Posts: 1,035
Likes: 39
From: Olive & Oak
It is my understanding that the stock NB sensors are replaced by the WB sensors when installing the TT kit. Only the WB's are installed and the NB's aren't used at all. The question remains, if you remove the TT, what are you left with for a map in the power vision, or do you have to re-flash a previous map?
Novice
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 23
Likes: 0
From: Langham SK Canada
There are only 2 sensors installed in the pic. The sensors are connected directly to the TT module instead of the factory harness, and the stock O2 connectors depicted at the top of the pic are connected to the O2 harness on the motorcycle. Basically you are inserting the TT module in series with the existing wiring.