Power Vision Information Thread
Road Master
Joined: Aug 2014
Posts: 1,035
Likes: 39
From: Olive & Oak
There are only 2 sensors installed in the pic. The sensors are connected directly to the TT module instead of the factory harness, and the stock O2 connectors depicted at the top of the pic are connected to the O2 harness on the motorcycle. Basically you are inserting the TT module in series with the existing wiring.
Key Features
- Allows the factory ECM to interpret and use wideband o2 sensor signals*
- Target fuel table from the calibration/tune is achieved in real time
- Retains OEM closed loop, adaptive fuel control strategy
- Learns and uses VE table corrections as you ride
- Does NOT interfere with dealer diagnostic/service tools
- Includes OEM style connectors to plug into factory o2 harness, either 2 or 4 pin versions
- Fits 2007 and newer Harley-DavidsonŽ Bikes
Novice
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 23
Likes: 0
From: Langham SK Canada
You are incorrect. The factory O2 sensors plug into the TT modules harness. See below.
Key Features
Key Features
- Allows the factory ECM to interpret and use wideband o2 sensor signals*
- Target fuel table from the calibration/tune is achieved in real time
- Retains OEM closed loop, adaptive fuel control strategy
- Learns and uses VE table corrections as you ride
- Does NOT interfere with dealer diagnostic/service tools
- Includes OEM style connectors to plug into factory o2 harness, either 2 or 4 pin versions
- Fits 2007 and newer Harley-DavidsonŽ Bikes
I guess we'll have to agree to disagree lol. I'm not into grandstanding or committed to standing on any particular soap box. Your highlight does say the connectors plug into the factory harness (not the sensor themselves). If you had to use both sensors at the same time, it would mean that all exhaust systems would have to have another bung welded into them.
Take care and have a great day!
Road Master
Joined: Aug 2014
Posts: 1,035
Likes: 39
From: Olive & Oak
I guess we'll have to agree to disagree lol. I'm not into grandstanding or committed to standing on any particular soap box. Your highlight does say the connectors plug into the factory harness (not the sensor themselves). If you had to use both sensors at the same time, it would mean that all exhaust systems would have to have another bung welded into them.
Take care and have a great day!
Take care and have a great day!
You do need both 18mm and 12mm bungs to install TT.
See this thread:
https://www.hdforums.com/forum/new-r...d-dynojet.html
Cruiser
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 160
Likes: 40
From: San Diego
Based on technical information provided by Jamie FUEL MOTO it looks pretty clear that the narrow band O2 sensors are disconnected and the wide band O2 sensors via the Target Tune Module will plug into the connectors that the narrow band (OEM) sensors use to plug into. The narrow band O2 sensors are not used and no longer needed.
Louis
Louis
Road Master
Joined: Aug 2014
Posts: 1,035
Likes: 39
From: Olive & Oak
So to correct some of my previous posts:
You only need 18mm bungs and the WB O2 sensors for TT to work.
The NB O2 sensors are disconnected and no longer used.
According to Brian at Fuel Moto "the Target Tune system is plugging into the wiring harness where your factory oxygen sensors used to be connected to. For the most clean install I would remove the factory oxygen sensors and install 12mm plugs in their place".
You only need 18mm bungs and the WB O2 sensors for TT to work.
The NB O2 sensors are disconnected and no longer used.
According to Brian at Fuel Moto "the Target Tune system is plugging into the wiring harness where your factory oxygen sensors used to be connected to. For the most clean install I would remove the factory oxygen sensors and install 12mm plugs in their place".
Last edited by J929626; Aug 6, 2015 at 11:25 AM.
Novice
Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 20
Likes: 1
From: Loysville, PA
I have the Target tune, when you install it the new TT module plugs into the existing harness connectors that formally were plugged into the stock narrow band sensors, therefore the narrow band sensors are no longer used.
Novice
Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 20
Likes: 1
From: Loysville, PA
Note, I chose to just cover and tie-wrap the stock O2 sensor plugs and leave them installed. In the event the module fails or their wiring fails I want to be able to plug my narrows in, flash the old tune in and run with them if needed...I am unsure of the failure mode if their module fails anybody know or care to speculate? Under the old way of doing things the PV and widebands were only needed to tune, now that the TT module and the widebands are in the loop full time it changes the risk of failure calculation.... Just my thoughts anyhow.
1st Gear
Joined: Aug 2014
Posts: 5
Likes: 1
From: Maple Grove, MN, USA
Thanks, Jamie. I appreciate the feedback. It's good to know that I'm on the right track.
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Joe Kucinski
Intermediate
Joined: Sep 2012
Posts: 33
Likes: 5
From: Montana
As I have multiple tune licenses for my power vision, my question relates to the use of target tune on more than one motorcycle. Is it possible to develop a tune using target tune on a specific bike and then remove it, reinstall the narrow band O2 sensors, and use the TT developed tune in the same manner as a normal power vision map?
Hopefully Jamie or Dyno Dan comes across this post, as they are likely the only ones that may be able to answer this question.
Hopefully Jamie or Dyno Dan comes across this post, as they are likely the only ones that may be able to answer this question.
Perhaps a quick overview would help as it regards to the tools available to correct VE tables and build solid calibrations using Dynojet's Power Vision:
Tune type > Process > Hardware required
Regular Tune > Autotune Basic > no extra hardware needed, uses stock o2's
Regular Tune > Autotune Pro > need Autotune wideband controller and sensors
Regular Tune > Autotune Pro > need Target Tune wideband controller and sensors
Target Tune Tune > Autotune Target Tune > need Target Tune wideband controller and sensors
I hope I didn't muddy the water, it's hard to convey some of this stuff with all the distractions in a day.
Novice
Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 20
Likes: 1
From: Loysville, PA
As I understand it the actions taken by the Target Tune that are unique to it (Things that the Auto Tune setup with the wideband sensors cannot do) are not exportable in any fashion they are short/long term trim corrections that cannot be "downloaded" in bulk and transferred, this is a limitation apparently of the Harley ECM. When you think of the Autotune process you never really "download" the tune from the bike itself, the PV makes corrections to the tune you selected when you started the tuning session and at the end of an autotune session you reflash that tune to the bike. When you want to load what you have running currently on the bike into WinPV you load the tune from the slot you last flashed the bike with, you cannot "Get tune" from the bikes ECM itself. Correct me anyone if I am wrong here.....
I had to read, reread, and read this again. If I understand you, "use the TT developed tune in the same manner as a normal power vision map?", in this scenario a guy would to have the calibration edits made for Target Tune compatibility set back to stock if they remove the TT hardware. Full-time, dynamic closed loop fuel control utilizing wideband o2 sensors requires the Target Tune module AND a Target Tune cal. If one or the other of these are absent, then this technology will not function.
Perhaps a quick overview would help as it regards to the tools available to correct VE tables and build solid calibrations using Dynojet's Power Vision:
Tune type > Process > Hardware required
Regular Tune > Autotune Basic > no extra hardware needed, uses stock o2's
Regular Tune > Autotune Pro > need Autotune wideband controller and sensors
Regular Tune > Autotune Pro > need Target Tune wideband controller and sensors
Target Tune Tune > Autotune Target Tune > need Target Tune wideband controller and sensors
I hope I didn't muddy the water, it's hard to convey some of this stuff with all the distractions in a day.
Perhaps a quick overview would help as it regards to the tools available to correct VE tables and build solid calibrations using Dynojet's Power Vision:
Tune type > Process > Hardware required
Regular Tune > Autotune Basic > no extra hardware needed, uses stock o2's
Regular Tune > Autotune Pro > need Autotune wideband controller and sensors
Regular Tune > Autotune Pro > need Target Tune wideband controller and sensors
Target Tune Tune > Autotune Target Tune > need Target Tune wideband controller and sensors
I hope I didn't muddy the water, it's hard to convey some of this stuff with all the distractions in a day.