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Jun 5, 2012 | 09:06 AM

#2521

dondee

Tourer

Joined: Oct 2010

Posts: 465

Likes: 1

Thanks much guys. Any quirks to watch out for in either case of Windows installation?

Quote:

Originally Posted by beasleyiv

Works fine in Parallels. That's the only kind of windows I have.

Beasley, which version of Windows are you using?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Udawg

I'm running Windows 7 in Bootcamp on a Macbook Pro and it all works fine. I boot to Windows to use it.

Udawg, how did a partition did you dedicate to Windows?

Jun 5, 2012 | 12:23 PM

#2522

iclick

Thread Starter

Extreme HDF Member

Joined: Sep 2005

Posts: 11,615

Likes: 50

From: Baton Rouge, LA

Quote:

Originally Posted by Linville Lion

I get a depression in the VE table, mostly in the front cylinder, at 2,750 at all MAP settings. This is also the exact place that I get spark retard signals...about 70-90 MAP. I smoothed out the VE table again and then set the AFR to .979 so it will not continue to change the VE though the closed loop process. I am wondering if the same quirk that changes the VE also causes the spark issue...and only on the front. I am done removing spark.

I'm not getting any depression except at 0% TP. Most changes made everywhere else are minor (±2%) so I usually only make manual changes to VE on any that need changing, but there are never more than a very few. The false knock event is always at around 60 KPA @ 2250-2500 RPM. Jamie told me to just ignore it and don't allow any adjustment since it usually pulls ≤2° out and it's all done within a few seconds.

Quote:

I agree with this, VE tuning and spark table refinement are two separate steps.

I'm happy with the spark advance I now have, so I don't tune there anymore. It does show me the knock events in PV Tune that I do look at, but the corrections are very slight and I rarely adjust. If I do I do it manually.

Quote:

Regarding the trip center data. When I loaded 1094, my gallons used went way up. I was at a correction factor of 1.323. I put back in the fuel used and the correction factor went down to 1.059. Interestingly enough, the trip odometers on the PV in Trip Center did not budge.

Yeah, I set mine from 1.12 to 1.0 and it is still too high. I haven't run my second tank through yet but when I do it'll create a correction of <1.0. I hope they leave it alone from now on, as I had the damn correction very close when they changed it.

The ECM/PV odometer calibration is very close to where it was, maybe a slight change that I base solely on the stock odometer reading.

Jun 5, 2012 | 12:28 PM

#2523

iclick

Thread Starter

Extreme HDF Member

Joined: Sep 2005

Posts: 11,615

Likes: 50

From: Baton Rouge, LA

Quote:

Originally Posted by Linville Lion

One thing that I do with the bike before making a log run is to stabilize the trim table. You can see that if you put both CLI signals on your gauge package. When most cells get to 100%, the trim table is at the selected AFR and will not change more than +/- 3%. That is when I will make a number of log runs, combine them in Log Tuner and make the changes to the tune. I seem to get less variation when I do it this way.

I'm tuning with the WB sensors, so I'm running open-loop both during and after tuning. Thus, CLI doesn't apply with my setup. The VE values are generally fairly smooth in their transitions so I don't apply any smoothing. I really think it is not wise when running open-loop since the WB sensors are supposedly reporting AFR accurately and it would seen that smoothing would take it off that track. If I was getting some wild transitions, like moving from 75 to 85 and then back to 75--I might consider it.

Jun 5, 2012 | 12:50 PM

#2524

xardoz

Novice

Joined: Jun 2012

Posts: 20

Likes: 1

From: Loysville, PA

So just how many knock events do you find acceptable? I had thought I should tune till I'm not seeing any but after the comments on false knocks I'm wondering how I tell a valid need to retard from false detections..... I had heard audible pings at load and higher rpm which clearly were an issue but now I just see knock events registering but not audible... Thoughts?

Jun 5, 2012 | 01:04 PM

#2525

CtCruzer

Cruiser

Joined: Sep 2009

Posts: 225

Likes: 1

From: ct

Looking to compare spark table
anyone with 103 107 etc running 10.5:1 or up preferably corrected at 185-200 compression
thanks

Jun 5, 2012 | 01:16 PM

#2526

iclick

Thread Starter

Extreme HDF Member

Joined: Sep 2005

Posts: 11,615

Likes: 50

From: Baton Rouge, LA

Quote:

Originally Posted by RLE

Ah, I think I understand. The wb's are only closed loop in the sense that they communicate with the pv.

Quote:

Whereas nb's run the ecm closed loop while communicating with the pv, just in a narrower sense.

IMO this is true in CL since the NB sensors are communicating with the ECM in real time and making changes to the tune through feedback. My setup never does this.

Quote:

My plan is to extend my 14.6 closed loop and get my ve's right across more of the board.

I haven't tuned in Basic (NB sensors) so I don't know how far you can go. My stock tune has closed-loop (14.6) going out to 100 KPA from 750-1250 RPM, although above about 50% KPA at those RPM's won't likely happen in reality. Above that up to 4500 RPM and 27-80 KPA is also closed-loop. I know the NB sensors have their limits as to the AFR that can be read, but I don't know what the functional limit is for KPA or RPM.

I know the NB sensors can't run in closed-loop throughout the operating range, and if they could there would be no need for "Pro" tuning with the WB sensors.

Jun 5, 2012 | 01:45 PM

#2527

iclick

Thread Starter

Extreme HDF Member

Joined: Sep 2005

Posts: 11,615

Likes: 50

From: Baton Rouge, LA

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sam2010

When looking at data logs how does it get the information it displays for example how does it get new and old VEs? what is old and new VEs?

The old VE's come from the PVV file you created from your original tune. The new are created by comparing the set AFR value and the AFR measured by the O2 sensors. There is an algorithm in PV Tune that makes these changes.

Quote:

I was thinking in closed loop old VE is number in table and new VE is based on feed back?

It is feedback from the O2 sensors with either the NB or WB sensors.

Quote:

I basically understand open and closed loop I think LOL but I am wondering how in open loop data log shows new VEs in open loop when I say right on the money I should rephrase because they are not exact but really close.

The datalog gathers the info from Set AFR (AFR table) and the actual AFR as reported by the O2 sensors. In the case of the WB sensors the ECM is not aware the WB's even exist and can't communicate with them in any way. The tune is created in an outside manner (PV Tune) and later run in open-loop. With the NB sensors you can, of course, run closed-loop if you want.

Quote:

I am not overly concerned with the wide open throttle tune because it seems to run great there and I dont ride there all the time.

Good point. If you are running a Fuel Moto tune it is likely very close up there anyway, so I wouldn't worry about it unless you have performance issues. You don't, so don't fix it.

I'm running the WB sensors simply because I already had the AT-100 that I used with the PCV. I could sell it, but won't likely do that.

Jun 5, 2012 | 06:47 PM

#2528

JustDennis

Road Warrior

Joined: Jan 2008

Posts: 1,549

Likes: 18

From: Upstate SC

Quote:

Originally Posted by timthetoolman

This may have been covered but I haven't found it ...yet!
I got the PV to install on an '02 Fat Boy but when I loaded it up it said there was no VIN. I've sent an email to Mr. Daniels at Dynojet already and they should reply tomorrow.
I was trying to look at the pre-loaded tunes but I got a VIN not found error. I'm thinking this may be because there is only '06 and above but I'm not sure. I'm wondering if there is any other functions that I will not be able to use.
I don't have the O2 sensors on the exhaust BTW.
I just installed it a couple days ago and work is getting in the way, hoping to get it up and going sometime this week.
I only have free flow exhaust and air cleaner but the shop I do the web design for wanted to play with one and my bike is running lean so what the heck, right?
TIA for your comments.

Just curious, was the Run switch in run position? the switch should be on and stop/run switch should be in run. I have seen the no ECM message when the run switch was on stop.

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Jun 5, 2012 | 09:03 PM

#2529

RLE

Tourer

Joined: Apr 2011

Posts: 472

Likes: 2

From: Hutchinson, Ks.

double

Last edited by RLE; Jun 5, 2012 at 09:08 PM.

Jun 5, 2012 | 09:07 PM

#2530

RLE

Tourer

Joined: Apr 2011

Posts: 472

Likes: 2

From: Hutchinson, Ks.

Quote:

Originally Posted by iclick

Well, I've never thought of it as a closed-loop process. Dictionary.com says this:

The complete path followed by a signal as it is fed back from the output of a circuit, device, or system to the input and then back to the output.

...and...

Of or pertaining to an automatic control system operating on a feedback principle.

I don't think it qualifies with either definition since there is no "automatic control system" taking place while tuning or running. The "control system" is PV Tune which makes changes to the tune, so there's nothing automatic about it, and there are no changes being made through feedback while the bike is running.

IMO this is true in CL since the NB sensors are communicating with the ECM in real time and making changes to the tune through feedback. My setup never does this.

I haven't tuned in Basic (NB sensors) so I don't know how far you can go. My stock tune has closed-loop (14.6) going out to 100 KPA from 750-1250 RPM, although above about 50% KPA at those RPM's won't likely happen in reality. Above that up to 4500 RPM and 27-80 KPA is also closed-loop. I know the NB sensors have their limits as to the AFR that can be read, but I don't know what the functional limit is for KPA or RPM.

I know the NB sensors can't run in closed-loop throughout the operating range, and if they could there would be no need for "Pro" tuning with the WB sensors.

I ended up logging at 14.6 up to 4500 rpm and 80 kpa, which was all 14.5 or 14.6 to start with. I left the rest alone.