Power Vision Information Thread
Thread Starter
|
Extreme HDF Member
Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 11,615
Likes: 50
From: Baton Rouge, LA
If you're logging Spark Knock, Front and Spark Knock, Rear you will normally see zeroes. If a knock event occurs there will be a value >0 displayed, in my case with the false knock I usually get "2" for a few seconds, then it tapers to "1", "0.5", and back down to zero. This represents the amount of retard evoked by the ECM to get rid of the knock. How much you get depends partly how you have Max Knock Retard set. The default for me was "8", meaning it won't retard more than 8°. I set mine down to "4" but it rarely applies that much.
A false knock event is one which can't be dialed out by retarding the timing. For example, let's say you have 20° of advance at a given location and get 2° of retard from the knock sensor, prompting you to reduce your advance to 18°. You then get another knock event from the Spark Knock parameter and you reduce it down to 16°, but following this procedure never stops the knock event. What's more I never actually hear any knock events, and the false-knock for me has always been at a point where I normally wouldn't expect to see it.
A false knock event is one which can't be dialed out by retarding the timing. For example, let's say you have 20° of advance at a given location and get 2° of retard from the knock sensor, prompting you to reduce your advance to 18°. You then get another knock event from the Spark Knock parameter and you reduce it down to 16°, but following this procedure never stops the knock event. What's more I never actually hear any knock events, and the false-knock for me has always been at a point where I normally wouldn't expect to see it.
Last edited by iclick; Jun 8, 2012 at 03:41 PM.
Cruiser
Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 228
Likes: 0
From: Texas
The PV does "Marry" to your ECM, but you can purchase additional licenses so that you can use the same PV on different bikes.
Thread Starter
|
Extreme HDF Member
Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 11,615
Likes: 50
From: Baton Rouge, LA
It's married to one bike as soon as you flash a tune to it. Once that is done you'll have to buy additional licence(s) to have it flash other ECM's. You can, however, run datalogs and monitor gauges with any bike.
Road Master
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 871
Likes: 7
From: Manchester, NH
How much to retard timing
Tomorrow I am going to do the Ride To The Sky, Mt Washington Auto Road. It is a Laconia Bike Week thing to do. I have done this 2 times before, on a 2004 and 2008 Ultra. Both pinged too much for my liking. The 04 was a 103, 258 SE cams, true duals. The 08 was a 103, 255 cams SE II slipons. Hot days, hot motors and slow traffic going up and up. I am using a Fuel Moto supplied map with the VEs and Lambda values adjusted by datalogging, spark maps remain unchanged. I am thinking of retarding my timing by 2 degrees and maybe making it a bit richer as well. Possibly using a fuel additive. What does the PV brain trust recommend?
i have a question but not sure where to ask it.. I have the PV.. i was in Lake George NY for the Americade and plan to go to Laconia for first time for weekend.. I have stopped by the DYNO's guys that was at the Americade and mentioned i have a PV... he laughed and says he cannot dyno my bike with the PV.. its not a live tuner... i have been using the PV since last year.. i like it.. .used log tuner, but was curious if my bike was tunned right and wanted to see it on a Dyno... i still havent met anyone here in Quebec area that has worked with the PV... are they afraid of it ? .... i think its a superior product...
Thread Starter
|
Extreme HDF Member
Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 11,615
Likes: 50
From: Baton Rouge, LA
To you guys who are using the beta firmware (1094), I'd like to ask you to do a little experiment. Flash your current tune to the ECM, then Load Copy of that tune and compare the VE values. To do that, go to Program Vehicle > Custom Tunes > Load Copy, then save it to a slot in the PV. In WinPV "Get Tune" and compare the two tunes. The VE values should be the same except for minor rounding changes. (I.e. 92.3 in the original tune may round to 92.5 in the copy).
Last edited by iclick; Jun 13, 2012 at 08:24 PM.
HD Forum Stories
The Best of Harley-Davidson for Lifelong Riders
7 Times Harley-Davidson Chucked Tradition Out the Window
Verdad Gallardo
7 Surprising Harley-Davidson Products that Are Not Motorcycles
Verdad Gallardo
8 Best Harley-Davidson Motorcycles Ever
Pouria Savadkouei
10 Worst Harley-Davidson Motorcycles Ever
Pouria Savadkouei
Killer Custom's Jail Break Is The Breakout That Refused to Blend In
Verdad Gallardo
Crazy Bunderbike Build Looks Amazing, But Is It Impossible to Ride?
Verdad Gallardo
Harley-Davidson Reveals Super Cool Cafe Racer Concept
Verdad Gallardo
Engraved Rebellion: Inside Bundnerbike's Glam Rock II
Verdad Gallardo
10 Motorcycles You Should Never Buy
Joe Kucinski
Road Master
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 871
Likes: 7
From: Manchester, NH
I think what the difference is, with the Power Commander series, the tuner could play with the fuel and spark and never have to shut the bike off. He could make the changes that the sniffers were calling for and by the overall feel of things due to his experience. Of course, these adjustments couldn't be flashed to the ECM. The change in values were added to the hardware connected to the ECM, intercepts the signal coming from the ECM and makes adjustments before sending to the engine. That's the reason for the O2 sensors being disconnected. The dyno tuner was able to see the results of the changes in an instant; in real time.
With the PV type tuners, that flash the new tune to the ECM, the dyno tuner now has to follow the downloading procedures of the unit being used. Typically all require the bike to be shut off, load the tune, wait 10 seconds, restart the bike and do it all over again. He would have to datalog more than once to get the DELTAs to an acceptable level. Quite a time consuming process. All this takes time to do correctly and most dyno tuners do not want to take the extra time to do this at a MC event. Think profit through volume at bike events.
I am in no way an expert and know enough to be considered dangerous, but this is the way it was explained to me by a dyno tuner.
With the PV type tuners, that flash the new tune to the ECM, the dyno tuner now has to follow the downloading procedures of the unit being used. Typically all require the bike to be shut off, load the tune, wait 10 seconds, restart the bike and do it all over again. He would have to datalog more than once to get the DELTAs to an acceptable level. Quite a time consuming process. All this takes time to do correctly and most dyno tuners do not want to take the extra time to do this at a MC event. Think profit through volume at bike events.
I am in no way an expert and know enough to be considered dangerous, but this is the way it was explained to me by a dyno tuner.
Road Warrior
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 1,549
Likes: 18
From: Upstate SC
I think what the difference is, with the Power Commander series, the tuner could play with the fuel and spark and never have to shut the bike off. He could make the changes that the sniffers were calling for and by the overall feel of things due to his experience. Of course, these adjustments couldn't be flashed to the ECM. The change in values were added to the hardware connected to the ECM, intercepts the signal coming from the ECM and makes adjustments before sending to the engine. That's the reason for the O2 sensors being disconnected. The dyno tuner was able to see the results of the changes in an instant; in real time.
With the PV type tuners, that flash the new tune to the ECM, the dyno tuner now has to follow the downloading procedures of the unit being used. Typically all require the bike to be shut off, load the tune, wait 10 seconds, restart the bike and do it all over again. He would have to datalog more than once to get the DELTAs to an acceptable level. Quite a time consuming process. All this takes time to do correctly and most dyno tuners do not want to take the extra time to do this at a MC event. Think profit through volume at bike events.
I am in no way an expert and know enough to be considered dangerous, but this is the way it was explained to me by a dyno tuner.
With the PV type tuners, that flash the new tune to the ECM, the dyno tuner now has to follow the downloading procedures of the unit being used. Typically all require the bike to be shut off, load the tune, wait 10 seconds, restart the bike and do it all over again. He would have to datalog more than once to get the DELTAs to an acceptable level. Quite a time consuming process. All this takes time to do correctly and most dyno tuners do not want to take the extra time to do this at a MC event. Think profit through volume at bike events.
I am in no way an expert and know enough to be considered dangerous, but this is the way it was explained to me by a dyno tuner.