Power Vision Information Thread
Road Master
Joined: Aug 2014
Posts: 1,035
Likes: 39
From: Olive & Oak
Absolutely COOL! A couple of questions if you can help - when I see asterisks on product info I get a bit twitchy if there is lack of included detail.
* Requires Power Vision Target Tune specific calibration
>> Where does one get this special calibration - from FM or DJ?
>> What should we use for a starting baseline tune file - or is existing tune file on bike ok?
** ECM must be "closed loop capable" and have OEM wiring for O2 sensor circuitry
>> What does this mean, specifically, for current model HD bikes? We know the WB O2's are a different physical size so will need new 18mm bungs on pipes, but what about the OE HD ECM and O2 wiring for full time operational use of WB O2 sensors?
* Requires Power Vision Target Tune specific calibration
>> Where does one get this special calibration - from FM or DJ?
>> What should we use for a starting baseline tune file - or is existing tune file on bike ok?
** ECM must be "closed loop capable" and have OEM wiring for O2 sensor circuitry
>> What does this mean, specifically, for current model HD bikes? We know the WB O2's are a different physical size so will need new 18mm bungs on pipes, but what about the OE HD ECM and O2 wiring for full time operational use of WB O2 sensors?
If you have a late model bike then you are good to go with the additional 18mm O2 bungs.
In addition:
1. You must have the latest WinPV software installed (2.0.8.1500)
2. You must have your Power Vision updated to the latest Firmware (2.0.19-1506) and Tune Database (0.0.9.33)
I have not seen it specifically stated but most WB O2 sensors / bungs are installed near the exhaust, like they were on pre 2010 bikes.
Outstanding HDF Member
Joined: Jun 2014
Posts: 3,185
Likes: 189
From: 90210
You send your map to FM or DJ and they convert it to a TT map.
If you have a late model bike then you are good to go with the additional 18mm O2 bungs.
In addition:
1. You must have the latest WinPV software installed (2.0.8.1500)
2. You must have your Power Vision updated to the latest Firmware (2.0.19-1506) and Tune Database (0.0.9.33)
I have not seen it specifically stated but most WB O2 sensors / bungs are installed near the exhaust, like they were on pre 2010 bikes.
If you have a late model bike then you are good to go with the additional 18mm O2 bungs.
In addition:
1. You must have the latest WinPV software installed (2.0.8.1500)
2. You must have your Power Vision updated to the latest Firmware (2.0.19-1506) and Tune Database (0.0.9.33)
I have not seen it specifically stated but most WB O2 sensors / bungs are installed near the exhaust, like they were on pre 2010 bikes.
So how is the TT working out for you?
Novice
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 23
Likes: 0
From: Langham SK Canada
Well I pulled the trigger on a target tune purchase today after a fairly lengthy conversation with Brian at Fuelmoto. Feel I need to mention 2 things:
The level of support provided by FM is second to none!
Target tune has way more capabilities than I think most folks realize, especially the way auto tune works in conjunction with target tune.
I'll update my experiences with it if anyone is interested after it arrives in week or so.
Cheers
H
The level of support provided by FM is second to none!
Target tune has way more capabilities than I think most folks realize, especially the way auto tune works in conjunction with target tune.
I'll update my experiences with it if anyone is interested after it arrives in week or so.
Cheers
H
Advanced
Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 67
Likes: 16
From: New Mexico
See this is what I'm curious about is the auto tune with target tune. Does it work in the same mannor as AT pro as far as how it sets up the tune and logs and make corrections. I guess I can just wait shipping says my TT will be here first thing in the morning!!!
Advanced
Joined: May 2006
Posts: 87
Likes: 3
From: South Alabama
Received TT yesterday and did the install this morning.
Pretty straight forward install with no problems.
Started bike up and idled through warmup phase. I noticed i was not getting any updated data on the gauges screen for CLI or AFF. Then it dawned on me that i forgot to enable closed loop and adaptive fuel control on my map as i was always running open loop with my tune before the TT install. One that was sorted i started receiving updated data for both.
I'll try to get some runs in today to see how all this works out and possibly try the autotune feature to see if that works or not. I see some posts from people asking if and how this function works.
Maybe i will be able to answer that question for all.
Pretty straight forward install with no problems.
Started bike up and idled through warmup phase. I noticed i was not getting any updated data on the gauges screen for CLI or AFF. Then it dawned on me that i forgot to enable closed loop and adaptive fuel control on my map as i was always running open loop with my tune before the TT install. One that was sorted i started receiving updated data for both.
I'll try to get some runs in today to see how all this works out and possibly try the autotune feature to see if that works or not. I see some posts from people asking if and how this function works.
Maybe i will be able to answer that question for all.
Intermediate
Joined: Mar 2014
Posts: 30
Likes: 0
From: WA
04,05 target tune?
So those if us unlucky enough to not have closed loop, but lucky enough to have upgradable ECMs, can we still play with target tune (with my 04, upgrade to an 05 ECM)? And if so will I have to install narrow band as well or can I use only the air tune pro widebands I already have?
Road Captain
Joined: Jul 2014
Posts: 507
Likes: 233
From: Perkasie Pa
Have been tuning my sportster using auto tune and w/b sensors, but there are just some areas that arr hard to hit, mainly high rpms and full throttle, just goes through the rpm range too fast for the auto tune to pick up the ve tables, lots of open blocks, and many showing + 15 so I cap them and rerun auto tune again and again. Have a dyno tune scheduled by one of the best in the area but that is not till september. Will TT do a better job than the at module or should I get the dyno (500$) he spends all day on a bike, or will TT bring it close to a good professional tune. Have Bassani road rage, screaming eagle a/c and cams. Looking at head work and higher compression later this winter.
Thinking about just getting the Target Tune and going from there and getting it dynoed after all the engine mods are done.
Thanks,
Jack
Thinking about just getting the Target Tune and going from there and getting it dynoed after all the engine mods are done.
Thanks,
Jack
Stellar HDF Member
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 2,928
Likes: 117
From: Ashby, Ma
Have been tuning my sportster using auto tune and w/b sensors, but there are just some areas that arr hard to hit, mainly high rpms and full throttle, just goes through the rpm range too fast for the auto tune to pick up the ve tables, lots of open blocks, and many showing + 15 so I cap them and rerun auto tune again and again. Have a dyno tune scheduled by one of the best in the area but that is not till september. Will TT do a better job than the at module or should I get the dyno (500$) he spends all day on a bike, or will TT bring it close to a good professional tune. Have Bassani road rage, screaming eagle a/c and cams. Looking at head work and higher compression later this winter.
Thinking about just getting the Target Tune and going from there and getting it dynoed after all the engine mods are done.
Thanks,
Jack
Thinking about just getting the Target Tune and going from there and getting it dynoed after all the engine mods are done.
Thanks,
Jack
When Jaime put my bike on the dyno he immediately identified this as being a failure of the fuel system to deliver enough gas at those high RPM/WOT conditions (and this was pre-engine work!).
We replaced the fuel pump and regulator and then he did the engine work.
The point being, if you are unable to get to a point where even after Scaling up a bit, the high RPM/WOTs keep calling for scale or cap.. then you most likely have a fuel pump or regulater that is failing at the high end.
In my case the bike ran fine down below 3500 but flat lined on the dyno as rpm increased after that. Don't ignore that condition and you may find you get a much more powerful bike once you resolve it.
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Outstanding HDF Member
Joined: Jun 2014
Posts: 3,185
Likes: 189
From: 90210
Jack, my 07 EGC would show high numbers on the high end of the RPM range and WOT. The AT would work fine down lower, but always want to scale up, or cap when I got up high. I never got to the bottom of this until I took my bike out to FuelMoto for some engne upgrades.
When Jaime put my bike on the dyno he immediately identified this as being a failure of the fuel system to deliver enough gas at those high RPM/WOT conditions (and this was pre-engine work!).
We replaced the fuel pump and regulator and then he did the engine work.
The point being, if you are unable to get to a point where even after Scaling up a bit, the high RPM/WOTs keep calling for scale or cap.. then you most likely have a fuel pump or regulater that is failing at the high end.
In my case the bike ran fine down below 3500 but flat lined on the dyno as rpm increased after that. Don't ignore that condition and you may find you get a much more powerful bike once you resolve it.
When Jaime put my bike on the dyno he immediately identified this as being a failure of the fuel system to deliver enough gas at those high RPM/WOT conditions (and this was pre-engine work!).
We replaced the fuel pump and regulator and then he did the engine work.
The point being, if you are unable to get to a point where even after Scaling up a bit, the high RPM/WOTs keep calling for scale or cap.. then you most likely have a fuel pump or regulater that is failing at the high end.
In my case the bike ran fine down below 3500 but flat lined on the dyno as rpm increased after that. Don't ignore that condition and you may find you get a much more powerful bike once you resolve it.
You'd think the OE setup could deliver enough gas and flow enough air to meet demands of typical stage1 / stage2 stuff. Not so! My '13 Breakout with Stage 1 (pipe, intake and tuning) is always running out of gas at higher MAP and RPM. My injector duty cycle gets as high as 95% (anything over 60 starts to become...not good).
I have some larger injectors to put on, and if I do any additional motor work you can bet that a larger TB will be part of the build as well.
You bagger guys with the 103's at least get a bit luckier with the 50mm TB and larger injectors supplied from the get-go. The rest of the FXS/FXD 103's got smaller TB & injectors, which barely meet the demands of a stock engine. I'd guess it would be a similar case with newer XL's.
Last edited by LA_Dog; Aug 9, 2015 at 08:52 AM.
Outstanding HDF Member
Joined: Jun 2014
Posts: 3,185
Likes: 189
From: 90210
Have been tuning my sportster using auto tune and w/b sensors, but there are just some areas that arr hard to hit, mainly high rpms and full throttle, just goes through the rpm range too fast for the auto tune to pick up the ve tables, lots of open blocks, and many showing + 15 so I cap them and rerun auto tune again and again. Have a dyno tune scheduled by one of the best in the area but that is not till september. Will TT do a better job than the at module or should I get the dyno (500$) he spends all day on a bike, or will TT bring it close to a good professional tune. Have Bassani road rage, screaming eagle a/c and cams. Looking at head work and higher compression later this winter.
Thinking about just getting the Target Tune and going from there and getting it dynoed after all the engine mods are done.
Thanks,
Jack
Thinking about just getting the Target Tune and going from there and getting it dynoed after all the engine mods are done.
Thanks,
Jack
If the TT works as claimed and you spend a little bit of time understanding how HD Delphi works, what the tables do, how the tables / settings relate to each other, and learn to interpret your logged data, you'd be able to get your tune pretty spot on - and with TT you can operate the bike using WB data to the ECM.
My only concern is how well the TT will actually work for all-out performance tuning and what its limitations are. It looks like a fabulous add-on to the PV but I doubt DynoJet would make an end user product that would instantly negate use of their bread-and-butter, the Dyno
