Where can I find more information regarding the ECM map "strategies" ? I've never seen an index of them, or what makes for different strategies, whether it's just different engine configurations or is actually within a configuration different performance parameters...

 

The attached Cal 12S1030024xx was sent to me by Pat last April when I initially requested a stage1 tune for my specific bike, year and mods. They did not have a tune for my VH big radius 2-2 pipes so they said the tune was based on rinehart 2-2 and shouldn't matter.
I ran into some significant issues after loading it since it was way off for the bike and also a strategy 357 file - was missing several settings for my ecm's 358 revision. I had inquired about this but stopped receiving responses. Members here helped me out and I eventually had a rather knowledgeable member send me a correct 358 file and a decent starting tune. After that I just started learning about tuning EFI in general and picking up tips here along the way.

So in looking at the current tune DB I see now that the set of 2012-2016 tunes have been updated as of Oct. 2015 and do reflect some variances between tune files on the VE's.

However- every single file is still the older strategy 357 including the ones named specifically for 2016 bikes. Those need to be updated to the correct revision, don't they? Ecm parameters will be missing that would normally be available. Picture of Cal ID's attached. I suspect it will be the same issue for Dynas and possibly touring bikes.

 

I looked thru the archives, pulled and compared various calibrations and could not find any errors. However note if a map was built as a 357 it remains a 357, this is the tune level. You cannot change it to different level as each level has differences in the code. Some differences are minor, some can be significant, sometimes you can copy & paste between levels. However its important to note a newer build level does not mean its better, its simply mean something has changed. In many cases things work better in an earlier level, we use whichever works the best. For reference we have seen the Motor Company change the build level as many a 3 times in a single model year on the same exact bike.

As far as the map Dynojet provided, if you updated your 357 tune using the PV it should expose all of the same tune items as a 358. There is nothing correct or incorrect using 357 vs 358. For reference nearly all the Fuel Moto 2012-2016 Softail/Dyna cals are 357 (excluding Softail TBW)

 

There are dozens of tune stategy level's, while its fairly simple to note which levels work with a given model it would be extremely difficult to list all the differences between them as far as definitions etc.. and in many cases there is nothing that can be seen by the end user tune item wise. We try to make it simple, we do the R&D and when ready release calibrations with the proper tune level for each application.

 

Thanks, Jamie ... actually I was looking for a more generic explanation, as I see the phrase "strategy:xxx" quite often, including obviously in looking at my maps in WinPV, but have never read the actual source. I assumed it was HD's naming of the individual maps for the various models as they are released and that"strategy" refers to the engineering goals for tuning that engine, but as good as Google is, I have never hit on an answer to the source/intention of the "strategy" notation.... or anything that listed maps by strategy...

Probably should have taken this outside of the PV thread, but most of the expertise seems to be right here and "strategy" does get referred to often.

 

Thanks Jamie- From what I've learned the strategy iterations are updated software and more than just tuning methods - I respectfully ask if you can please look a bit deeper into it. Perhaps the below will help and I apologize in advance for the long post- but I feel it's important to try and present the case.

See the original 358 file attached from my Breakout as loaded by HD. Then look at the PV tune file as given to me initially by DJ, which is a 357 (also attached). there are 35 tuning parameters missing from 357 that were added in 358- and I lost access to all of those settings when I loaded DJ's 357 file. I could not get those settings back until I again used a 358 file for further tuning. Also my bike did not run so hot with DJ's available 357-based tune files, and I tried all of them at the time. Once I was directed back to using a 358 file things go back on track. This is significant to note. Granted, not all of the missing params are relevant to my specific model- but many of them are.

I spoke to a lead tuning tech at HD Glendale last year around summer (He used to run their SE engine upgrade program and in house dyno tuning before HD squashed it). I asked him about diff between 357 and 358 since I had just discovered the problem- He told me they are indeed as you said different tuning strategies but also contain important bug fixes and new features for the ECMs in each newer iteration of bike and model.

For instance, on touring bikes, strategy 617 addressed some bugs present in 614 and also added new features such as spark vs. head temp to help reduce ping. See the DJ public release update pdf here, first page bullet #3, which verifies DJ's acknowledgment that HD does fix bugs with each new strategy software update. http://www.powercommander.com/downlo...Me_3-20-14.pdf

I was told by the HD tech to always use the newest strategy available and not to use one older than my ECM came with. He told me if I used an HD tuning product like the SEPST tuners, it will always force the newest sofware update (strategy) provided by HD, and older versions are obsoleted / not able to load, even if the bike came stock with an older strategy version.

Related, this is from DJ's PV info page here: http://dynojet.com/powervision/power...t-details.aspx
On this short page is stated: "If you choose to use the pre-configured tunes, the device will identify the ECM strategy / software level of the stock calibration, and then automatically sort applicable tune files in groups of relevant modifications for YOUR bike. "

Now if the PV can ID the strategy level and let you choose from that level or newer for database tune files, great- but - all of the listed PV database tunes available for 2012-2016 softails are 100% older 357 - And my 2013 bike came with 358 that has a wide swath of new settings. So the PV is not acting in this regard correctly because DJ is not keeping their strategy files current in relation to new model bikes and HD's ECM software releases. (a strategy version release is actually a software update release)

For 2016 softail / dyna with TBW, I don't see how the available 357-based files are going to work well on those ECMs. They will be missing at least 35 settings and if they come with MAP-based VE then they would be forced to use TPS-based VE's. (not sure which they are though)

I'm not sure how this might affect a warranty situation if bike was brought to dealer for an engine related issue and it was discovered that ECM was running an old strategy file obsoleted by HD, earlier than could possibly have been put on the bike from the factory. That would raise some flags and could potentially void someone's warranty claim (or at least make it more of a hassle than it should be).

I hope at least some of this helps and the above info supports further investigation. fingers are tired...

 

Have you updated your PV firmware and then run "Update Tune Using PV..." from the WinPV menu,
I know it's basic PV 101, But it usually exposes or adds new items in the tune tree from newer versions.

 

Hi Smokey- yes- I even downloaded the entire current tune DB to my PC. anything for 2012-up non touring bikes is using the older 357 software maps.

finding anything concrete online about this is difficult- but here is one other reference to new ECM settings made available in 358 vs 357:
https://www.hdforums.com/forum/ignit...n-numbers.html

One of most importance to me, 358 provides the gear ratio and speedometer correction settings whereas 357 does not.

 

I havn't updated in a long time as newer versions mostly dealt with Rushmores and 103 c.i. And I'm happy with my tune and havn't changed any performance components. But I do have speedometer correction settings for different size diameter tires though. I'm just following along with this thread so if/when I build up to TT I'll have some idea wth is going on thanks to your efforts. I can only relate my simple understanding of things but I know if I miss one small step somewhere I don't get the next one lol. I've also been following your sprocket/pully mods.Keep up the good work.Thanks for sharing.

 

Smokey- I went out, plugged in the PV and selected 'load tune' from the most current tune DB loaded onto the PV. it is apparently strategy and software level ignorant and even thought I have 358 in the ECM, it will let me choose from and load any of the 357-based tunes. it does not tell you this on the screen- for example, one of them says "2012-2016 softail w/ SE air cleaner"- and it is a 357 file. I'm pretty sure the 2016 bikes are going to be using an even newer strategy with FBW. So the on-page statement I linked to above by DJ on PV's feature would appear to be false on identifying the ECM's current strategy and then only loading the appropriate tune file.

Touring bikes have a different software obviously, but the same principals would apply in a rev 614 vs 617 or newer. What's important to note is that the proper term for these strategy file versions are "software updates".

And thanks for following my crazy upgrades- half the fun is figuring out if it will work or not