Power Vision Information Thread
Extreme HDF Member
Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 14,670
Likes: 139
From: East of the Sun, West of the Moon
Not "101" - there is no instruction to that effect in WinPV, PV quick Start Guide, Dynojet's PV FAQ page, or elsewhere in regards to loading a tune received from DJ. You're not going to know an older strategy tune file is missing settings that should be there unless you happen to figure it out on your own at some point and specifically inquire about it. FM may have instructed you to do this but not everyone has bought their PV from them
FM will get you tuned up on the decel popping. A nice thing about PV's Quick Tune is you can make general adjustments on decel fuel and decel spark timing, ride, and see if you are getting closer to resolving it. then use that knowledge along with ride data logging to make the changes more precisely.
E.g. start out with adding +10 to decel fuel and see if it helps.
This is a method I've used to find and permanently reduce decel popping:
Exhaust popping on deceleration is due to a too lean or too rich mixture in the exhaust. Most commonly, the mixture will be too lean. The ECM has three tables which affect this: The Decel Enleanment, the AFR table, and the VE table. Spark timing has some effect as well.
The Decel Enleanment table only acts for a short time (ie 1-2 seconds) after the throttle is closed. Lets say you only have decel cracking right after you decel and close the throttle. To richen the mixture during this time, decrease
the value in the DE table at the engine temperature the problem occurs.
If that does not fix it look to richen or enlean the AFR during the entire decel event. One recommended way is to richen the AFR table in the in the first column (20 kPa between 1750 and 3500 RPM by 5 to 10 percent).
Some experimentation will find the sweet spot that eliminates the popping.
Others have recommended to change the VE table values to eliminate this popping. This will also work, however since changing the VE table has many other effects on engine operation, it's not the best place to start especially if not familiar with making VE changes and outcomes. The decel VE's Jamie already shared with us are the 0,2,5 columns for TPS-based VE tuning.
To determine the MAP and RPM areas that are causing the popping, use the following procedure to "mark" a ride data logging session.
1. Set-up logging to use narrow band tuning signals, start logging then do a 20 minute ride
2. When you are riding and the popping occurs, pull in the clutch and let the engine revs drop to idle
3. When you review the log data, look for that intentional idle spot you created. The MAP and RPM area that caused the popping are right before this.
4. Richen up these MAP and RPM locations in the AFR table. If going richer doesn't help, try going leaner. if neither helps, you can also look at adjusting spark timing in the decel event area. Typically, reducing spark timing in the decel areas will help prevent popping.
-There are other methods, this is just one that I've used.
E.g. start out with adding +10 to decel fuel and see if it helps.
This is a method I've used to find and permanently reduce decel popping:
Exhaust popping on deceleration is due to a too lean or too rich mixture in the exhaust. Most commonly, the mixture will be too lean. The ECM has three tables which affect this: The Decel Enleanment, the AFR table, and the VE table. Spark timing has some effect as well.
The Decel Enleanment table only acts for a short time (ie 1-2 seconds) after the throttle is closed. Lets say you only have decel cracking right after you decel and close the throttle. To richen the mixture during this time, decrease
the value in the DE table at the engine temperature the problem occurs.
If that does not fix it look to richen or enlean the AFR during the entire decel event. One recommended way is to richen the AFR table in the in the first column (20 kPa between 1750 and 3500 RPM by 5 to 10 percent).
Some experimentation will find the sweet spot that eliminates the popping.
Others have recommended to change the VE table values to eliminate this popping. This will also work, however since changing the VE table has many other effects on engine operation, it's not the best place to start especially if not familiar with making VE changes and outcomes. The decel VE's Jamie already shared with us are the 0,2,5 columns for TPS-based VE tuning.
To determine the MAP and RPM areas that are causing the popping, use the following procedure to "mark" a ride data logging session.
1. Set-up logging to use narrow band tuning signals, start logging then do a 20 minute ride
2. When you are riding and the popping occurs, pull in the clutch and let the engine revs drop to idle
3. When you review the log data, look for that intentional idle spot you created. The MAP and RPM area that caused the popping are right before this.
4. Richen up these MAP and RPM locations in the AFR table. If going richer doesn't help, try going leaner. if neither helps, you can also look at adjusting spark timing in the decel event area. Typically, reducing spark timing in the decel areas will help prevent popping.
-There are other methods, this is just one that I've used.
Road Master
Joined: May 2012
Posts: 773
Likes: 124
From: Between purgatory and retirement
The Update Client is mentioned in chapter 2 of the WinPV User Guide, updating a tune in chapter 3. But yes, you are correct on 2 points. First the documentation on the PV leaves a lot to be desired, and second I do remember Fuel Moto stressing to me when I called to order the PV to make sure I update any tune. They also left a big note inside the box reminding me!
My problem is not decel pop ( at least I have not created that problem yet ) but rather gurgle.
I am tuning a newly built 107, using a modified ( and BTW updated
) version of my stock tune.
Did the initial break-in with the tune Fuel Moto sent, but wanted a MAP based tune.
Right now just checking logs and trying to refine the tune for my next AutoTune run, which may be a while until weather permits. Currently it is much easier for me to review the numbers and notice break points in spreadsheet format: haven’t gotten used to MegaLogViewer yet, but playing with it.
In addition to manually raising the VE tables in the decel area I am also going to try moving my Min Map setting to 35 ( from 30 ) as she seems to idle between 38-41 kPa. Don’t know if that will work with the tables having columns labeled 30 and 40, and no 35 column.
I am guessing I may create decel pop trying to get rid of the gurgle, and depending where it occurs will determine what method I use to cure that.
My problem is not decel pop ( at least I have not created that problem yet ) but rather gurgle.
I am tuning a newly built 107, using a modified ( and BTW updated
) version of my stock tune.Did the initial break-in with the tune Fuel Moto sent, but wanted a MAP based tune.
Right now just checking logs and trying to refine the tune for my next AutoTune run, which may be a while until weather permits. Currently it is much easier for me to review the numbers and notice break points in spreadsheet format: haven’t gotten used to MegaLogViewer yet, but playing with it.
In addition to manually raising the VE tables in the decel area I am also going to try moving my Min Map setting to 35 ( from 30 ) as she seems to idle between 38-41 kPa. Don’t know if that will work with the tables having columns labeled 30 and 40, and no 35 column.
I am guessing I may create decel pop trying to get rid of the gurgle, and depending where it occurs will determine what method I use to cure that.
Last edited by IKnowNot; Feb 11, 2016 at 12:24 PM.
Outstanding HDF Member
Joined: Jun 2014
Posts: 3,185
Likes: 189
From: 90210
yep- that is where proper product support makes a key difference for new users. DJ has a very specific FAQ on what to do when you receive a tune from DJ via email. and it does not include running an update on it. Chapter 2 and 3 info are not linked together in any manner so one would not know to do one with the other. Updating the tune till leaves the software version incorrect if the tune is built on an older cal than what the ecm came with, but at least the missing settings show up.
107 is a really nice upgrade- I'm sure you must be stoked with it. good luck on the gurgling issue- most would be pretty happy with only having that. what brand of pipes?
107 is a really nice upgrade- I'm sure you must be stoked with it. good luck on the gurgling issue- most would be pretty happy with only having that. what brand of pipes?
Advanced
Joined: Aug 2015
Posts: 75
Likes: 3
From: oregon
Been following this very interesting thread. I upgraded AT to TT (FuelMoto) last fall on both bikes, '07 120" Street Glide and '07 Deuce. Bikes do run better.
I'm still learning my way around PV/TT. I don't seem to be able to find the MAP tables nor where it show the H-D s/w strategy level or setting lower decel VE's. From what I've read you need to know what your doing when changing VE's.
I have asked DJ a few times where I can go to learn more about this stuff and have never received a reply. I agree with the posts about a lack of documentation. My issue is DJ tells you (kinda) what to do but not why your doing it and what effect it has in any kind of detail nor what you should be shooting for.
Thanks.
I'm still learning my way around PV/TT. I don't seem to be able to find the MAP tables nor where it show the H-D s/w strategy level or setting lower decel VE's. From what I've read you need to know what your doing when changing VE's.
I have asked DJ a few times where I can go to learn more about this stuff and have never received a reply. I agree with the posts about a lack of documentation. My issue is DJ tells you (kinda) what to do but not why your doing it and what effect it has in any kind of detail nor what you should be shooting for.
Thanks.
Road Master
Joined: May 2012
Posts: 773
Likes: 124
From: Between purgatory and retirement
what brand of pipes?
Actually didn't plan on the 107 kit, but after pulling the heads to add the ACRs, looked at the jugs just sitting there and said, might as well.
From what I've read you need to know what your doing when changing VE's.
... but not why your doing it and what effect it has in any kind of detail nor what you should be shooting for
Last edited by IKnowNot; Feb 11, 2016 at 03:01 PM.
Outstanding HDF Member
Joined: Jun 2014
Posts: 3,185
Likes: 189
From: 90210
Been following this very interesting thread. I upgraded AT to TT (FuelMoto) last fall on both bikes, '07 120" Street Glide and '07 Deuce. Bikes do run better.
I'm still learning my way around PV/TT. I don't seem to be able to find the MAP tables nor where it show the H-D s/w strategy level or setting lower decel VE's. From what I've read you need to know what your doing when changing VE's.
I have asked DJ a few times where I can go to learn more about this stuff and have never received a reply. I agree with the posts about a lack of documentation. My issue is DJ tells you (kinda) what to do but not why your doing it and what effect it has in any kind of detail nor what you should be shooting for.
Thanks.
I'm still learning my way around PV/TT. I don't seem to be able to find the MAP tables nor where it show the H-D s/w strategy level or setting lower decel VE's. From what I've read you need to know what your doing when changing VE's.
I have asked DJ a few times where I can go to learn more about this stuff and have never received a reply. I agree with the posts about a lack of documentation. My issue is DJ tells you (kinda) what to do but not why your doing it and what effect it has in any kind of detail nor what you should be shooting for.
Thanks.
Do a few auto tune sessions and you'll be golden. easy as that. TT will keep everything in tune for you all the time. From there you can tweak individual needs like curing decel pop, cooler idle in summer, setting up an economy tune file and a performance tune file you can switch as needed, etc. You would use the WinPV software on a PC to open a tune file and edit tune items.
Having some basic understanding of how HD Delphi EFI works and how the VE / AFR / Spark tables inter-relate is good so things make more sense. Try running through this pictorial guide- one of the best at breaking down and explaining EFI / Delphi in plain but informative terms.
http://www.808networks.com/pub/EFI B...ley delphi.pdf (to save the pdf do a right-click on link and "save as".)
Novice
Joined: Jun 2009
Posts: 24
Likes: 0
From: Prince George B.C. Canada
I just bought a 2004 FLHTCUI, with a 103 SE kit. It was tuned in 2014, and runs great. What I was wondering, with a Power Vision. Could I down load the current tune, then try different settings, and go back, to the orginal settings? This is my first EFI bike. my other 2 have S&S Super E. Thanks for all the info.
Advanced
Joined: Aug 2015
Posts: 75
Likes: 3
From: oregon
My current issue is since I installed the TT in my Street Glide my cold start idle gets up to between 1500 and 1600 rpm, seems high. It does eventually come down to normal after the engine warms up. It's higher than before the TT. Before TT I had PV/AT for a couple years.
The Deuce with TT does not have the same issue.
The Deuce with TT does not have the same issue.
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Joe Kucinski
Outstanding HDF Member
Joined: Jun 2014
Posts: 3,185
Likes: 189
From: 90210
I just bought a 2004 FLHTCUI, with a 103 SE kit. It was tuned in 2014, and runs great. What I was wondering, with a Power Vision. Could I down load the current tune, then try different settings, and go back, to the orginal settings? This is my first EFI bike. my other 2 have S&S Super E. Thanks for all the info.
Outstanding HDF Member
Joined: Jun 2014
Posts: 3,185
Likes: 189
From: 90210
My current issue is since I installed the TT in my Street Glide my cold start idle gets up to between 1500 and 1600 rpm, seems high. It does eventually come down to normal after the engine warms up. It's higher than before the TT. Before TT I had PV/AT for a couple years.
The Deuce with TT does not have the same issue.
The Deuce with TT does not have the same issue.
to reset it- run the bike. take your hand off the throttle completely and make sure it is full closed position. then switch off the bike completely and leave it off for a bit. next time yuo start up your "0" should be back to normal and idle normal.
[[[EDIT]]] Actually my info is probably wrong for your bike- there is a specific "reset" process. see this thread here: https://www.hdforums.com/forum/new-r...5-limited.html
Not saying this is definitely it but it can't hurt to try. It could also be your idle rpm warmup steps in the tune, which are adjustable. You can always call FM for direct help as well.
Last edited by LA_Dog; Feb 11, 2016 at 08:28 PM.