Power Vision Information Thread
Elite HDF Member
Joined: Aug 2013
Posts: 3,789
Likes: 277
From: Hawkeye state
slydog- now what did they claim to "tune" exactly? I think you got taken to the cleaners, unless you specifically told them you want a maximum economy tune. Look at your AFR at bottom of chart printout. As Smokey said- "lean as hell". No wonder your pipes blued. is that 16.16 AFR the "after tuned" run?? the HP/TQ lines are fairly jaggy as well.
Lots of shops with a dyno but unfortunately very few are actually good dyno tuners.
Lots of shops with a dyno but unfortunately very few are actually good dyno tuners.
Outstanding HDF Member
Joined: Jun 2014
Posts: 3,185
Likes: 189
From: 90210
yeh they plain don't know what the F they are doing.
A good experienced tuner makes a good dyno operator and tuner.
A dyno machine and some internet or vendor-provided classes does not. That's just ludicrous. It takes years just to become decent and a whole lot of years to become very good.
Hell they should have paid *you* for providing a bike for their "OJT" learning experience. Get your money back or call your CC company and charge it back.
And they should ALWAYS give you the dyno chart before and after. That is YOUR property that you paid for. If they can't give you printed verified evidence of all results then it never happened.
A good experienced tuner makes a good dyno operator and tuner.
A dyno machine and some internet or vendor-provided classes does not. That's just ludicrous. It takes years just to become decent and a whole lot of years to become very good.
Hell they should have paid *you* for providing a bike for their "OJT" learning experience. Get your money back or call your CC company and charge it back.
And they should ALWAYS give you the dyno chart before and after. That is YOUR property that you paid for. If they can't give you printed verified evidence of all results then it never happened.
Last edited by LA_Dog; Feb 18, 2016 at 06:40 PM.
Outstanding HDF Member
Joined: Jun 2014
Posts: 3,185
Likes: 189
From: 90210
One more thing to consider- HD Dealers are not allowed to do anything outside the EPA guidelines. Period. So any tune you get from an HD dealer, on a dyno or with a loaded HD stage1 tune map, is going to remain within EPA guidelines (lean). They have no choice in the matter, it's corporate mandate.
Buy your bike and do warranty service at your dealer.
Go to an independent specialist for anything relating to performance and performance tuning. End of story.
Buy your bike and do warranty service at your dealer.
Go to an independent specialist for anything relating to performance and performance tuning. End of story.
Elite HDF Member
Joined: Aug 2013
Posts: 3,789
Likes: 277
From: Hawkeye state
One more thing to consider- HD Dealers are not allowed to do anything outside the EPA guidelines. Period. So any tune you get from an HD dealer, on a dyno or with a loaded HD stage1 tune map, is going to remain within EPA guidelines (lean). They have no choice in the matter, it's corporate mandate.
Buy your bike and do warranty service at your dealer.
Go to an independent specialist for anything relating to performance and performance tuning. End of story.
Buy your bike and do warranty service at your dealer.
Go to an independent specialist for anything relating to performance and performance tuning. End of story.
Outstanding HDF Member
Joined: Jun 2014
Posts: 3,185
Likes: 189
From: 90210
well sorry you are sort of stuck with them- but there is a lot more than just asking for a minimum 14- your AFR table and VEs hit a wide range of AFRs depending on load, throttle position and rpm. idle, low load, cruise areas will be leaner like 14.1-14.4 on the economy end of things. throttle roll ons and WOT would see ranges of 13.8 to 13.1 to 12.8 and even 12.5.
the other end of things is tuning the spark advance tables to optimize power / tq. and all of that takes experience. I do hope they do a decent job next time around.
the other end of things is tuning the spark advance tables to optimize power / tq. and all of that takes experience. I do hope they do a decent job next time around.
Outstanding HDF Member
Joined: Jun 2014
Posts: 3,185
Likes: 189
From: 90210
slydog- was going to say, if there is a dealer operating outside of company policy they will get smacked down eventually. Glendale Harley in Los Angeles was "the place" to get any performance work done and serious dyno tuning. it was actually one of the best places to go in LA for performance tuning, period. they had to close up shop end of 2014 due to new corp policy, sold the dyno machine, and can't do any work that is not within EPA guidelines or CARB compliant. Not even installing a Stage4 SE race kit. I had a long chat with the service manager about it.
Elite HDF Member
Joined: Aug 2013
Posts: 3,789
Likes: 277
From: Hawkeye state
Mostly yes. The biggest factor I am dealing with is the blame on the tailpipe sniffer being requested as opposed to drilling the headpipes. They never stated I would get a crap tune from that but also are trying to blame that for the lean afr. Hoping stroker or Joe would answer that question. I see it as a blame for lack of ability to do a proper tune but I am not a dyno operator.
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Outstanding HDF Member
Joined: Jun 2014
Posts: 3,185
Likes: 189
From: 90210
that's pretty funny- blaming an inanimate piece of equipment for operator inexperience or failure. I would question whether the probe was even calibrated correctly, and ideally they are using a two probe machine and not a single probe.
see these links for some good basic info:
http://www.drdyno.com/tuningtips.html
http://raskcycle.com/service/dyno-qa.html
this page too- excellent read from top to bottom especially as it pertains to stock AFR ratios for 2006-earlier bikes (ideal) vs 2007-up (EPA mandated lean) bikes. http://www.nightrider.com/biketech/Pro_tuning.htm
see these links for some good basic info:
http://www.drdyno.com/tuningtips.html
http://raskcycle.com/service/dyno-qa.html
this page too- excellent read from top to bottom especially as it pertains to stock AFR ratios for 2006-earlier bikes (ideal) vs 2007-up (EPA mandated lean) bikes. http://www.nightrider.com/biketech/Pro_tuning.htm
Last edited by LA_Dog; Feb 19, 2016 at 01:15 AM.
Extreme HDF Member
Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 14,670
Likes: 139
From: East of the Sun, West of the Moon
Mostly yes. The biggest factor I am dealing with is the blame on the tailpipe sniffer being requested as opposed to drilling the headpipes. They never stated I would get a crap tune from that but also are trying to blame that for the lean afr. Hoping stroker or Joe would answer that question. I see it as a blame for lack of ability to do a proper tune but I am not a dyno operator.