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Ignition/Tuner/ECM/Fuel InjectionNeed advice on ignition issues? Questions about a tuner? Have questions about a EFI calibration or Fuel Injection? Tips on Engine Diagnostics, how to get codes, and what they mean. Find your answers here.
Thanks David, I am using narrow band sensors. The AFR was set in the begining before the logs, there was a change from the original to the bottom, after Fuel Moto made a change to eliminate spark knock, it didnt go away completely. The data I am working with is about 48,000 lines long. I made sure to only include data from a point well after where I had finished my autotune sessions, when the bike was running ok. I am looking at possibly adding the Target Tune down the road.
Last edited by totalgearhead; Feb 11, 2020 at 04:44 AM.
If I had to add to my story, I completed a 103 upgrade on my 96. I added 57H cams, .030" Head Gasket, S&S powertune headpipe with Rinehart slip-ons. I bought the PowerVision from Fuel Moto and they sent a Map, I ran a bunch of tuning sessions with the narrow bands and had bad pinging when getting on the throttle, so i sent that back to fuel moto for an adjustment. The pinging remained and through more tuning spark tables I got it better and better. The best the bike ran was at the end of the season when I tried a map with VE's I grabbed from someone here that had the same set-up. The pinging went away and power was way better. The VE's were higher than my map by a noticable amount in the bottom right side of the map. Below are my timing when i got rid of the pinging. I am anxious to get out and ride, to contiue tuning this thing! Thanks.
Last edited by totalgearhead; Feb 11, 2020 at 05:06 AM.
set the ignition timing back to stock and leave it for now. First get the fuel air right then (only if needed) work on the timing.
as you seem prepared to put in a lot of effort (good stuff) I quoted your comments about the sensors and TT
First, when you auto tune with NBs and no tune module the PV can only gather data from
a very narrow operating range. Then it or you have to make assumptions for the rest (hence your bezillion lines of data to play with)
when you use WBs and a TT the PV is reading the actual AFRs across all Rev and MAP (load) ranges.
the VE calculation is done based on the difference between what the AFR map states for each cell and what actually is read by the sensor.
so:
1. you need to know what AFRs you want or need for your kind of riding and based on your engine system spec
2. You need a tool to measure if that is what you are getting
3. in closed loop with the TT on the bike ECM will close loop on every one of those cells
4. Without TT on the bike permanently you need to auto tune so that the enough hits can be made in each VE cell so that these can be written into the tune on the ECM
5. Dont wast time using someone elses VE table
6. No prob using someone elses AFR table
I stopped playing now and only if I change a component do I get into it again. I thoroughly auto tuned and set the TT up to live behind the battery on the bike with the tune set for full closed loop and am delighted.
so go step by step - Fuel Moto can send you an AFR map to get started but do get the WBs and TT to do the job properly. I assume your exhaust system has bumps to accommodate otherwise more effort and cost needed but worth it
Originally Posted by totalgearhead
I am using narrow band sensors. after Fuel Moto made a change to eliminate spark knock, it didnt go away completely. I am looking at possibly adding the Target Tune down the road.
set the ignition timing back to stock and leave it for now. First get the fuel air right then (only if needed) work on the timing.
as you seem prepared to put in a lot of effort (good stuff) I quoted your comments about the sensors and TT
First, when you auto tune with NBs and no tune module the PV can only gather data from
a very narrow operating range. Then it or you have to make assumptions for the rest (hence your bezillion lines of data to play with)
when you use WBs and a TT the PV is reading the actual AFRs across all Rev and MAP (load) ranges.
the VE calculation is done based on the difference between what the AFR map states for each cell and what actually is read by the sensor.
so:
1. you need to know what AFRs you want or need for your kind of riding and based on your engine system spec
2. You need a tool to measure if that is what you are getting
3. in closed loop with the TT on the bike ECM will close loop on every one of those cells
4. Without TT on the bike permanently you need to auto tune so that the enough hits can be made in each VE cell so that these can be written into the tune on the ECM
5. Don’t wast time using someone else’s VE table
6. No prob using someone else’s AFR table
I stopped playing now and only if I change a component do I get into it again. I thoroughly auto tuned and set the TT up to live behind the battery on the bike with the tune set for full closed loop and am delighted.
so go step by step - Fuel Moto can send you an AFR map to get started but do get the WBs and TT to do the job properly. I assume your exhaust system has bumps to accommodate otherwise more effort and cost needed but worth it
Thank you David, good info right there! It's great to get the input to help keep my head clear and keep my tuning plan on track! Now where's the warm weather?
Last edited by totalgearhead; Feb 11, 2020 at 09:01 PM.
Just looked at the AFR table you shared. Way too lean. If you want a quick bump and have your bike run cooler, change all the red numbers to what you have for green, change the green for the purple numbers and make the blue and purples all 12
a good starting point for now
when you riding set the gauges on the PV to show you AFR, HT, REVS and MAP - Watch what is going on. If you are at 4500 revs and hit a grade you will see MAP increase, if the bike doesnt power through richten the AFR for those sells. If you are cruising at those REVs the MAP will be lower, if it runs easy lean up the AFRs in those cells for fuel economy
good thing is you can ride and tune at same time and you learn a lot in the process....
I've been having a bit of issue and reached out a few times before to seek help.
I didn't have the window systems to load my tune, but just recently bought a computer on windows and am now able to download my tune.
Was wondering if someone would help to take a look?
The issue I'm faced with, is that while my tune is running good, there is a very very strong smell of unburnt gas at idle.
I've noticed this to be more obvious when running light to light, compared to coming to a stop after a cruise along the freeway.
Comparing it to stock map, I noticed that there's a few significant differences in
Engine displacement : 107.9 vs 107 (stock)
Throttle blade control : values are significantly lower
Accel enleanment : values have numbers but stock doesn't
Deciel enleanment : values have numbers but stock doesn't
The tune I'm using is a mix of the preloaded Rinehart stage 1 map from Dynojet with a bit of tweaks.
Bike is running great, but the plugs are on the rich side. (dark and sooty)
Any help would be good, sitting at idle chokes me to the point I sometimes tear because of the fumes.
I ride a lot in the city so it's something that I hope can be solved.
Thanks for the help, and really appreciate the time you're putting into this request.
have I sorted answers next to your questions - lets start the journey
Originally Posted by harlot
I've been having a bit of issue and reached out a few times before to seek help.
I didn't have the window systems to load my tune, but just recently bought a computer on windows and am now able to download my tune.
Download link https://we.tl/t-NIWrpHm7Gr.
Am in isolation myself with Apple stuff only so also cant read winPV files right now but will answer what I can
The issue I'm faced with, is that while my tune is running good, there is a very very strong smell of unburnt gas at idle
Tune adjustments are unlikely to be causing this - have a look at the pipe connection to the check valve under the fuel tank rear for leakage.
Comparing it to stock map, I noticed that there's a few significant differences in
Engine displacement : 107.9 vs 107 (stock) - insignificant, the PV when in autotune mode may suggest CU change when VR % changes are high
Throttle blade control : values are significantly lower. - share the figures and the units please
Accel enleanment : values have numbers but stock doesn't. - this is a fast way of adjusting VRs, if the bike runs well leave it but I would do an Autotune then check Auto nie results in WinPV
Deciel enleanment : values have numbers but stock doesn't, your pipes would have a lot of popping when you snap throttle closed and this adjustment is to reduce it. If bike Running well leave it but I would clean it up as part of autotune process
The tune I'm using is a mix of the preloaded Rinehart stage 1 map from Dynojet with a bit of tweaks - who made the teaks and how?
Bike is running great, but the plugs are on the rich side. (dark and sooty) - indicated low AFR which is safe for the engine but a photo of the plug would help. No disrespect but not everyone can read a plug. It needs a Chop test, is that what you did?
I am running a Harley-Davidson extreme ventilator (https://www.harley-davidson.com/stor...18-29400397--1) and a cobra neighbour hater pipe.- then a good tune essential, I assume you have the PV autotune Module with WB sensors?
Any help would be good, sitting at idle chokes me to the point I sometimes tear because of the fumes - scary also
I've been having a bit of issue and reached out a few times before to seek help.
I didn't have the window systems to load my tune, but just recently bought a computer on windows and am now able to download my tune.
Was wondering if someone would help to take a look?
The issue I'm faced with, is that while my tune is running good, there is a very very strong smell of unburnt gas at idle.
I've noticed this to be more obvious when running light to light, compared to coming to a stop after a cruise along the freeway.
Comparing it to stock map, I noticed that there's a few significant differences in
Engine displacement : 107.9 vs 107 (stock)
Throttle blade control : values are significantly lower
Accel enleanment : values have numbers but stock doesn't
Deciel enleanment : values have numbers but stock doesn't
The tune I'm using is a mix of the preloaded Rinehart stage 1 map from Dynojet with a bit of tweaks.
Bike is running great, but the plugs are on the rich side. (dark and sooty)
Any help would be good, sitting at idle chokes me to the point I sometimes tear because of the fumes.
I ride a lot in the city so it's something that I hope can be solved.
Thanks for the help, and really appreciate the time you're putting into this request.
As noted by email something is clearly wrong, in the PV tune you emailed me the VE tables are maxed out in the light load area, this is 30-40% richer than the base tune and is not at all normal. I would expect you have an air leak at the intake manifold or you did not remove the throttle body support with the air cleaner you installed. See figure 1 in the install instructions https://serviceinfo.harley-davidson....9?locale=en_US
I think the problem might a warp intake manifold, it's been replaced once by the dealer under warranty and the VE's as pointed out by Jamie is pointing toward a leak once again
Just updated my power vision firmware as I made some changes to my tune and wanted to flash it to the bike. Flashed it, went for a ride and all seemed good. However, when checking codes I had U0156 (lost comm w/speedo) thrown. I cleared it. Verified that it was cleared then I went inside and made a few additional changes to my tune file. I flashed the changes and figured why not check the codes again. Well, U0156 was back and the only thing that was done was a flash to the ECM.
I Know this didn't happen previously, but with the newer firmware or something... Is this code being thrown due to the ECM flash that the power vision is completing? Seems like this is what's happening, at least on my bike. Just wondering if anyone has any advice or knowledge on this. I don't want to start hunting for wiring issues if I don't need to.
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