My 124 runs in the 340's most of the time.. It has been as high as 350. I have tried about everything to get it down. I even went from the PV-4 to the PV-3B and Target Tune. It was professionally tuned when I was running the PV-4. With the PV-3B and TT, I am now running a Fuel Moto canned tune. Wide Band readings are in the 13.7:1 area. All of this changed nothing! I do run lowers and I tried running without them (which I did not like) and temps dropped about 20 degrees. I did not feel that 20 degrees was worth the hassle of running without the lowers so they are back on. I tried the Love Jugs Mighty Mites and didn't see any change with them at road speed. They might cool things when you are stopped but my bike cools way down when stopped anyway. When some of you talk about temps running in the 270's - 290's I wonder why they are that low... I said all of this to say that I quit worrying about it (or at least trying not to) I changed the screen on my PV to not show temps and I guess if it melts down I will worry about it then...

 

Yeah, the transverse fans won't do anything when the bike is moving - airflow down the bike from the wind blows it down along the bike. The Love Jugs are really for stationary cooling only, regardless they just put the simplest control for them @ on with B+ switch.

I asked why the didn't tie into the ECM EITMS, that was their response - added cost.

So if your build is making the engine run hot on the road, then a oil cooler with fan is about all you can do, I think.

 

I made the mistake of getting an FP3 first but now it's really handy. I have the tune by PV and Fuel Moto but use the FP3 for the gauges. It reads off the same sensors so gets the same numbers as the PV and I can just use my phone app. The FP3 allegedly works on a bike that it's not married to for monitoring. Folks may be able to get those really cheap online and just used the monitor function. I need to test that and see if it works on my buddy's bike.

 

If you have a PV, you can use it as a digital dashboard as well. Get a handlebar mount, run the cable and you have about 15 different gauge formats to choose from, and each one can display value the PV can read, realtime. I have them mounted in my line of sight so I don't have to look at the stupid tank mounted gauges. No reason to risk my phone up on the handlebars...

This is on a previous bike, but its in the same position on my LRS and King.

 

As do I.

 

Oh My! Just got back to this thread and saw some interesting posts!


Yes, most M8's run well above 270F in the summer, and many do in the winter also.

I am not sure we have ever referred to above 270F as damaging temps, but definitely there is accelerated wear occurring, and max potential power is not being generated.

The fact that it is frustrating, or seemingly unrealistic, does not change the facts.

1. Around 270F ET is when an engine (TC or M8) starts putting out less power and accelerated wear is occurring. This is easily demonstrable on a dyno. It also is supported by simple deductive reasoning of the fact that HD starts trying to cool it down at those temps.

2. Take any HD that has had 10k miles or more, where a good percentage of those miles was above 270F, and do a leak down test (which will show if there has been accelerated wear or not) and see what you get.



Yes, you are correct. As noted in our Report at this LINK, -

• The built-in safety mechanism, installed by Harley in the Delphi ECM, is designed to retard the timing when the ET sensor in the cylinder head hits around 270* F. (the timing retard is actually based off a calculated CHT #, and that algorithm derived # is almost always hit when the ET sensor crosses the 265-270* F threshold) This is there, partially, as a strategy by Harley to prevent the engine from getting too hot for its’ own good (read engine longevity/warranty claims). Retarding the timing will help prevent the heat from climbing higher, but it also drastically reduces power/performance.

We refer to ET because the vast majority of the time when the ET is at 270F or higher the CHT will trigger the timing retard...and it is just simpler.

Regarding oil temps and synthetic, 230F is what HD says is normal operating temp for the oil, and it is followed by virtually all engine manufacturers, that 230F is the top temp they want to see, regardless of the type of oil...although most are now recommending synthetic.



Those are great oil temps you are experiencing on both bikes!

Sporty ET is just a hair high, but that could be margin of error on calibration on the sensor.

M8 is close too, but probably outside the margin of error on the sensor. I would try and get it down if it were my bike.

Here is just one of our Customers that has gotten his temps down on his M8. We never went over 270F in Arizona, with some hard riding. Also, side not on another misunderstood subject of MPG is addressed in this video, starting around the 6:05 mark. The discussion of temps starts around the 9:08 mark.






Well stated!

 

I’ve fallen into the trap… I just got a PV and noticed my engine temp…

Ambient temp: 50F
Cruise set to 75mph
6th gear
3000 RPM
MAP: 58 kPa

Engine temp: 307F
Head temp: 343F

These temps are reached 5 miles down the road immediately after a cold start.
Temps are constant for the remainder of the 30 minute ride at 75mph.

 

what I have noticed on our Harleys for ~20 years and nearly 300,000 miles now is that by not ever having measured, therefore seen engine or oil temps displayed anywhere, our models have not suffered any debilitating heat related problems. I have noticed by reading about Harley engines and excessive heat, that many folks that have been monitoring the issue have indeed discovered it to be a problem.

 

New PV owner?

I have not hooked mine back up since I added the fan to my oil cooler, or the Wards fans I installed last year. I just feel better!

I need to check and see if there is a difference. I will do it this year after the rebuild, and dyno tune.

 

Funny thing is it been that way for how many miles you have run it prior to seeing the numbers. The M8 shows a hotter temperature due to the placement of the head temp sensor. It is located in the rear cylinder head on the front right corner tucked in behind the Throttlebody and intake. The TC had the sensor in the front cylinder head on the left rear corner right behind the horn area. So when adding aftermarket cooling fans the temperatures on a TC would drop and the M8's drop little to none. The truth of it all, is the only way to cool them down is to run an oil cooler that has more surface area to reduce the oil temperatures as that is what is truly cooling these engines. If your bike has lowers on it that will also drive the temperatures up, as it limits the airflow getting to the engine for cooling. If you happen to have an Oil cooled model, the best place to cool the oil is the return line from the rear cylinder head before it goes back into the oil sump. That is the hottest oil in the engine and you always what to cool whatever is the hottest to get the best gains. By cooling the oil returning from the heads we have measured drops in temperatures of 40 - 50 deg.