"DYNO" Numbers For SOFTAILS
Intermediate
Joined: Dec 2014
Posts: 38
Likes: 0
From: Washington
Average Torque and Horsepower for me
I read a lot of these posts and we all like to quote the peak numbers, but most of us don't ride peak numbers. I am more interested in the average of each 500 rpm in the are I ride.
I recently had my '08 Softail Custom upgraded to 103 and se255 cams, with street ported heads. Many have posted better cams than the 255, but this is not what I am discussing.
With the TTS tuner, I ended up with 90hp/108 tq for peak numbers. What really matters to me is the range from 2200-4700 rpm have over 100 lbs of torque. This is where I ride. It has a nice flat torque curve and once I get 500 miles on the rings, I will see how the horsepower feels.
The auto industry started averaging torque and horsepower figures a few years back and it really make sense to me.
In the 6 speed bike, this was exactly what I wanted to achieve. It only has 9.6-1 compression, so it should not be hard to start, but I will know more this summer.
I wasn't looking for bragging rights, rather a nice riding bike that doesn't have to work hard, but still has enough to play at times.
( there is my 3.5 cents! )
Bob
I recently had my '08 Softail Custom upgraded to 103 and se255 cams, with street ported heads. Many have posted better cams than the 255, but this is not what I am discussing.
With the TTS tuner, I ended up with 90hp/108 tq for peak numbers. What really matters to me is the range from 2200-4700 rpm have over 100 lbs of torque. This is where I ride. It has a nice flat torque curve and once I get 500 miles on the rings, I will see how the horsepower feels.
The auto industry started averaging torque and horsepower figures a few years back and it really make sense to me.
In the 6 speed bike, this was exactly what I wanted to achieve. It only has 9.6-1 compression, so it should not be hard to start, but I will know more this summer.
I wasn't looking for bragging rights, rather a nice riding bike that doesn't have to work hard, but still has enough to play at times.
( there is my 3.5 cents! )
Bob
Last edited by WA Cruiser; Jan 19, 2015 at 03:07 AM.
And the 100 TRQ between 2200 and 4700 RPM's you are talking about is only at Wide Open Throttle. So unless you go wide open your not putting out 100 TRQ all the time in those ranges.
Intermediate
Joined: Dec 2014
Posts: 38
Likes: 0
From: Washington
Tuner Reply
The one thing I like about this forum is, things are kept positive. I had this all done at the dealer and they recommended break-in of keeping it below 3500 rpm for 500 miles, so that is what I am doing. After that, I will get to open it and see what she will do.
It was funny how you replied, which brought me to another question I had. During the "dyno-tune" time, don't they run it WOT for tuning? With that being said, why do they want me to run under 3500 rpm? It was stated for ring break-in. We used to do that on our cars, but only for about 2 hours, then run it hard or as they say break it in the way you are going to ride/drive it.
I do know that once the rings seat and we get everything wore in, it will run a little better, they always do ( engines ). How do you break-in your new engines?
Once again, once I get the 500 miles on it, I will open it up and see how it feels. I have not gotten to do that yet and it is driving me a bit crazy. Average torque is the way to go, weather it is at WOT or not, it is available !!
It has a lot more than it did. Before it was a healthy Stage 1 96". 76hp/92tq.
I am not trying to compete with the "Hot Rod Bar hopper bikes", I like to cruise and it runs strong.
Happy Cruiser !
Bob
It was funny how you replied, which brought me to another question I had. During the "dyno-tune" time, don't they run it WOT for tuning? With that being said, why do they want me to run under 3500 rpm? It was stated for ring break-in. We used to do that on our cars, but only for about 2 hours, then run it hard or as they say break it in the way you are going to ride/drive it.
I do know that once the rings seat and we get everything wore in, it will run a little better, they always do ( engines ). How do you break-in your new engines?
Once again, once I get the 500 miles on it, I will open it up and see how it feels. I have not gotten to do that yet and it is driving me a bit crazy. Average torque is the way to go, weather it is at WOT or not, it is available !!
It has a lot more than it did. Before it was a healthy Stage 1 96". 76hp/92tq.
I am not trying to compete with the "Hot Rod Bar hopper bikes", I like to cruise and it runs strong.
Happy Cruiser !
Bob
The one thing I like about this forum is, things are kept positive. I had this all done at the dealer and they recommended break-in of keeping it below 3500 rpm for 500 miles, so that is what I am doing. After that, I will get to open it and see what she will do.
It was funny how you replied, which brought me to another question I had. During the "dyno-tune" time, don't they run it WOT for tuning? With that being said, why do they want me to run under 3500 rpm? It was stated for ring break-in. We used to do that on our cars, but only for about 2 hours, then run it hard or as they say break it in the way you are going to ride/drive it.
I do know that once the rings seat and we get everything wore in, it will run a little better, they always do ( engines ). How do you break-in your new engines?
Once again, once I get the 500 miles on it, I will open it up and see how it feels. I have not gotten to do that yet and it is driving me a bit crazy. Average torque is the way to go, weather it is at WOT or not, it is available !!
It has a lot more than it did. Before it was a healthy Stage 1 96". 76hp/92tq.
I am not trying to compete with the "Hot Rod Bar hopper bikes", I like to cruise and it runs strong.
Happy Cruiser !
Bob
It was funny how you replied, which brought me to another question I had. During the "dyno-tune" time, don't they run it WOT for tuning? With that being said, why do they want me to run under 3500 rpm? It was stated for ring break-in. We used to do that on our cars, but only for about 2 hours, then run it hard or as they say break it in the way you are going to ride/drive it.
I do know that once the rings seat and we get everything wore in, it will run a little better, they always do ( engines ). How do you break-in your new engines?
Once again, once I get the 500 miles on it, I will open it up and see how it feels. I have not gotten to do that yet and it is driving me a bit crazy. Average torque is the way to go, weather it is at WOT or not, it is available !!
It has a lot more than it did. Before it was a healthy Stage 1 96". 76hp/92tq.
I am not trying to compete with the "Hot Rod Bar hopper bikes", I like to cruise and it runs strong.
Happy Cruiser !
Bob
You ask 10 differn't guys how to break in an engine and you'll likely get 12 different opinions
. When I build an engine I do the heat cycles (let them engine idle 30 secs. the first time, cool repeat, adding 30 seconds to each run time) after 5 or 6 heat cycles I put it on the dyno for a break in MAP. This is where I give it a nice conservative tune UP TO 4000RPM's. If the tuner allows me I set the rev limiter at 4K and give the bike to the customer for a 500 miles break in then I do the final tune.If they had your bike up to the rev limit now, any damage that could be done has already been done so how you ride it is up to you. If the rings weren't seated properly before they tuned it then you could experience blow by and oil burning.
I'm sure people will respond to this saying my way is wrong etc. That's fine. I've been doing it this way for over ten years and i've never had an issue so that is how i'm going to continue to do it. I have a bike in the shop right now that came 500 miles for a 124" build. I'll break his in on the dyno, pretty much do the same thing I stated above but after the break in MAP i'll put 250 miles or so on it on the dyno in 10-15 mile increments with a cool down to room temp. in between.
Intermediate
Joined: Dec 2014
Posts: 38
Likes: 0
From: Washington
Average TRQ Break-in
Thanks Tuner,
That was my thought, if they ran it all the way up to the RPM limiter, it has already been there. I have read articles in AIM about how important "break-in" is. I know they put the bike through the heat cycles, because I had to wait to pick it up an extra day ( due to my work schedule ). So far I have only put about 150 miles on it since I got it back, but wow it has torque.
I am not some young kid at 50 and have built many small block Chevys for my circle track cars, but this is the first time I had much done with a Harley. I only ran a few heat cycles with the racecar and then racing is racing! Normally I would have done this stuff myself, but the dealer winter discount was not much more than the parts alone and my time is very limited. I thought, I like my power and I would not chance having my bike apart during the warmer months.
I have a goal of trying to ride 150 days in 2015. For some that may not be a big deal, but in Washington this can be a challenge with also having a busy work schedule. So far I have already ridden 7 days and I did not get my bike until the 6th. I do see nasty weather coming this weekend though.
Thanks for the comments,
Bob
That was my thought, if they ran it all the way up to the RPM limiter, it has already been there. I have read articles in AIM about how important "break-in" is. I know they put the bike through the heat cycles, because I had to wait to pick it up an extra day ( due to my work schedule ). So far I have only put about 150 miles on it since I got it back, but wow it has torque.
I am not some young kid at 50 and have built many small block Chevys for my circle track cars, but this is the first time I had much done with a Harley. I only ran a few heat cycles with the racecar and then racing is racing! Normally I would have done this stuff myself, but the dealer winter discount was not much more than the parts alone and my time is very limited. I thought, I like my power and I would not chance having my bike apart during the warmer months.
I have a goal of trying to ride 150 days in 2015. For some that may not be a big deal, but in Washington this can be a challenge with also having a busy work schedule. So far I have already ridden 7 days and I did not get my bike until the 6th. I do see nasty weather coming this weekend though.
Thanks for the comments,
Bob
Intermediate
Joined: Dec 2014
Posts: 44
Likes: 0
From: Surrey, Great Britain
torque to cubic inches.
The theoretical maximum torque for a normally aspirated engine is 95ft/lbs per 1 litre of engine
1litre = 1000 cc = 61ci.
so you are looking at a maximum of about 1.55 ft/lbs torque per cubic inch.
Being realistic then you dont want to go above about 90ft/lbs per litre or 1.47 ft/lbs per cubic inch as your engine will be into drag racing levels of unreliability and you would be highly unlikely to get it that far. Even anything above 85ft/lbs per litre is going to make tolerances and reliability too fine
However 80 ft/lbs per litre is quite doable I am told by my drag racing friends without compromising reliability. SO that translates into 1.3ft/lbs of torque per cubic inch as being very attainable.
With stock heads, wiseco pistons and SE cams, SE freeflow breather kit and SE slip on smufflers I am getting 1.06ft/lbs per cubic inch or 85ft/lbs out of my 1995 80"evo.
I am based in London England so basically at sea level.
I think this is how dyno charts need to be viewed. How efficiently is your engine processing oxygen and fuel.
1litre = 1000 cc = 61ci.
so you are looking at a maximum of about 1.55 ft/lbs torque per cubic inch.
Being realistic then you dont want to go above about 90ft/lbs per litre or 1.47 ft/lbs per cubic inch as your engine will be into drag racing levels of unreliability and you would be highly unlikely to get it that far. Even anything above 85ft/lbs per litre is going to make tolerances and reliability too fine
However 80 ft/lbs per litre is quite doable I am told by my drag racing friends without compromising reliability. SO that translates into 1.3ft/lbs of torque per cubic inch as being very attainable.
With stock heads, wiseco pistons and SE cams, SE freeflow breather kit and SE slip on smufflers I am getting 1.06ft/lbs per cubic inch or 85ft/lbs out of my 1995 80"evo.
I am based in London England so basically at sea level.
I think this is how dyno charts need to be viewed. How efficiently is your engine processing oxygen and fuel.
Seasoned HDF Member
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 21,006
Likes: 7,541
From: Poolville
Nice numbers
I like the way the torque jumps out of the box....What gear did you do the pulls in and what auto tuner do you have? I see that you correction to actual is .99 does that mean the your actual numbers are higher?
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Intermediate
Joined: Dec 2014
Posts: 44
Likes: 0
From: Surrey, Great Britain
Nice figures
Those are nice figures TCDonis. 1.07 ft/lbs per cubic inch. Very respectable and in line with what you have done. I reckon high compression pistons(not more than 10.5:1 should bump you up to 1.15 pretty easily. I found I got my most noticeable bump from pistons. I wish the manufacturers and machine shops would come out and say put in this you will get that, add this to that and you will get this. But they dont and yes I know there are computer programs that will supposedly work it all out for you but I would like a machine shop to put up expected charts and results for each mod so we could shop more informed
Those are nice figures TCDonis. 1.07 ft/lbs per cubic inch. Very respectable and in line with what you have done. I reckon high compression pistons(not more than 10.5:1 should bump you up to 1.15 pretty easily. I found I got my most noticeable bump from pistons. I wish the manufacturers and machine shops would come out and say put in this you will get that, add this to that and you will get this. But they dont and yes I know there are computer programs that will supposedly work it all out for you but I would like a machine shop to put up expected charts and results for each mod so we could shop more informed