Hey BlackSP, first, it looks like they did a good job squeezing some more out of it. Was that using the Harley Pro Street Tuner?

Second, I must be translating this wrong, but the torque looks to be showing a peak of 177.3Nm. If I translate that into ft/lbs, it comes to over 130 ft/lbs. That's 10 ft/lbs more than you'd get from a Stage II with the torque cam. That seems unrealistic for a bike with the stock cam in it. What am I not counting?

 

I don't know what you're not counting but they were surprised too and they do an awful lot of tuning (stage I-IV builds, blueprinting etc). It even topped 180 at 1750-2000 rpm. But it's a peak torque, a stage 2 would maintain that level much longer.
They did so many runs to indeed squeeze the most out of it but also ran some tests with the old headers (without cat) to verify the numbers. A few techs discussed the outcome, also confirmed that the Rineharts are really good and declared the outcome to be valid. So I'm happy.

I used the 'old' supertuner btw.

Edit: what the guy did very good was many runs to tune the fuel mixture vs performance, than tuning the ignition, than back to fuel mixture and continued this until the tipping point was reached. Than he tuned for fuel economy across multiple air temperature and moisture ranges and started the whole process over. So he really squeezed it.

 

Okay, so this result is not from using the new SE Pro Street Tuner, but from the earlier race tuner? That could make a big difference.

Second question then - the difference between the two lines is not drastic, so... Can you clarify what the first tune means? Was that the stock tune before any changes were made? Because it is still showing a very strong performance for a Stage 1. Was that also a full tune with the race tuner, but just with the cats out, and using the Street Cannons instead of the Rineharts?

Final question (for now): I know you said you had Rineharts, but is the header pipe the original stock setup?

Thanks!

 

Was that also a full tune with the race tuner, but just with the cats out, and using the Street Cannons instead of the Rineharts?

Confirmed.
And standard headers, now a different set with the cats stil in. So more pressure hence the higher torque.

And the old supertuner indeed makes a big difference with all options working for ignition/spark advance or delay etc. Less environmental restrictions.

 

Thanks for the confirmation. I am optimistic, yet puzzled. Optimistic because you kept the stock exhaust (except for slip-ons) and were able to get 130 ft/lbs of torque out of it. And puzzled, because... yours is a Stage 1, and that's 20 ft/lbs more than Harley says a Stage II, with the torque cam, will generate. Further puzzled because the scaling on your chart is not consistent for the two lines, so they don't cross at 5250 like charts normally do. And finally puzzled because your chart is showing metric HP numbers and nanometers, whereas I'm used to US-style hp and ft/lbs. So ... I took your chart into Excel and adapted the numbers to US-style HP and US-style ft/lbs, and charted out your results against the Harley Stage II Torque Cam (SE447) charts, and this is what I came up with:




It looks a little confusing to see the four lines, but if you just focus on one pair at a time it becomes easier to see. And what's happening is that your Stage 1 is showing much more torque and HP than the Harley Stage 2, in the lower RPM range. They change place at about 3800 RPMs, and from then on the Harley Stage 2 shows progressively bigger and bigger gains over yours. The green and red lines are torque, and the blue and yellow lines are HP.

Your HP numbers are right in line with what a Stage 1 bike should probably be delivering. A stock 114 is supposed to peak at about 82 hp, and yours with the high-flow air cleaner and high-flow mufflers is peaking at around 90, whereas the Stage 2 peaks at 100. So that all seems reasonable. But the torque numbers are just incredibly huge. How is that possible, for the stock cam to be delivering 20 ft/lbs more than the Stage 2 torque cam, and nearly 30 ft/lbs more than the stock bike? I've seen numbers close to that high on Stage 2 bikes with full exhaust systems (such as ADM's) but I've never seen anything like those torque numbers on a stock 114 cam.

I would love to stick with the stock exhaust (with S&S slip-ons). I haven't seen a 114 tuned with an aftermarket tuner and the stock headpipes yet, yours is the first. It certainly gives me optimism that perhaps I won't have to replace the stock headpipes in order to get a good performance boost when my warranty runs out and I get the bike properly tuned.

 

Can't explain it either but I've had many bikes over the 37 years I'm riding Track racing for many years, did the Boxer Cup with 3 different r1200s stage 1 bikes. And I remember one was much more powerful than the other 2. They where all dynoed, custom maps made for each of them. The tuner said I was just lucky with that one bike, all the parts were just right and yes, that does makes i difference. How much? I really don't know...

 

With my experience with building engines and drag racing (Cars). I really never give much weight to the final numbers of DYNO's. I have seen cars/vehicles that make less on the DYNO badly beat cars down the track that supposedly made more HP on a DYNO and traction was not the culprit....

As far as I'm concerned DYNOs are good for one thing only... before and after results and TUNING. They let the tuner know if the changes made improved HP/TQ or did not improve HP/TQ. Do a base, add the mod, tune and then do another run... take both numbers and subtract the smaller number from the larger number and you will have your HP/TQ gain/loss... using a DYNO for anything other than that is just internet babble.

I know i have beat more than my share of DYNO queens at the track who advertised 100+ HP over my DYNO results...

So... if he says hes making 10HP more than the average bike... that's what the DYNO that day put him at. The next step is to Line him up next to someone with similar mods and let the bikes do the talking.

I'm willing to bet he is no quicker than a similarly modded bike.

So... wheres he live and who has a similar bike with similar mods? This can be easily settled in a very friendly competitive manner. Losers buys winner first two rounds!

SPEED SAFE, NICK

 

Not to get technical or off topic, but "More pressure" in the exhaust does not increase torque... increased "velocity" increases scavenging in turn torque. This scavenging takes advantage of the overlap in the cam profile when the intake is opening and the exhaust is closing yet open at the same time for a short duration... the exhaust pulse tugs on the intake side giving the intake air a running head start into the engine allowing more air to enter the combustion chamber. Lose exhaust velocity, lose the tug on the intake air and in turn lose torque. Its just basic theory of operation... with that said, theory of operation suggest that no engine on the planet needs nor benefits from "Back Pressure" that's many years of passed down folklore from generation to generation from people who did not have a grasp on the basic theory of operation ... They just knew when they added true dual's they lost torque... they did not really know why... so they decided to suggest it was lack of "back pressure"...because when the went to big they lost torque yet when they went down a size they gained it...

And now you know the rest of the story...

SPEED SAFE, NICK

 

 

SPEED SAFE, NICK