Engine build for '12 Deluxe
Thread Starter
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Tourer
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 446
Likes: 0
From: Wilmington, NC
Engine build for '12 Deluxe
Hey guys,
So here it is... I have been out of the game for a while, since I sold my beloved 06 RK (biggest mistake of my life, and I've made lots). It's been a few years and I've got the bug again. Honestly don't know how I've went without one for so long.
I spent some time doing my due diligence on which model I wanted and came up with the deluxe, even though I've always said I'd never own the "girls bike"
and luckily (I guess?) the local stealer had a 2012 model with 900 miles on it.
I'm still planning the cosmetic changes, but I want to get the show on the road with the engine upgrades. The bike is stock, 103.
I want to run a Fatcat regardless so I need to kind of back plan the rest if I am to run a big boar baffle. I may just end up running the louvered baffle and less engine mods. We can discuss all that.
At a bare minimum I need an AC, cams, and pipe. I wouldn't mind doing some head work and/or pistons for compression while I'm in there. I'm traditionally a car guy so I haven't been inside one of these yet, so I'm not sure exactly what I'll need and want. Cost really isn't too much of a concern, rather down time. I don't want the thing to be in pieces for too long.
I want a nice lopey cam, for sure. Nothing too unstreetable/tunable, but something fairly more radical than mild....
Headwork?
Other necessities? Throttle body?
I want a clean open element look on the AC, maybe a big sucker? Which one might flow the best?
I'd like to justify getting the big boar baffle if possible. Their site says "stage 4 103's +" for the big boar, and to stock 103's for the louvered. This leaves a bit of room for question.
Obviously this is all preliminary stuff, and I'm rusty, but I'd like to get this underway in the next week or so. I know this is a lot, but if I receive enough help I promise to take a lot of pictures
What would you do??
So here it is... I have been out of the game for a while, since I sold my beloved 06 RK (biggest mistake of my life, and I've made lots). It's been a few years and I've got the bug again. Honestly don't know how I've went without one for so long.
I spent some time doing my due diligence on which model I wanted and came up with the deluxe, even though I've always said I'd never own the "girls bike"
and luckily (I guess?) the local stealer had a 2012 model with 900 miles on it.I'm still planning the cosmetic changes, but I want to get the show on the road with the engine upgrades. The bike is stock, 103.
I want to run a Fatcat regardless so I need to kind of back plan the rest if I am to run a big boar baffle. I may just end up running the louvered baffle and less engine mods. We can discuss all that.
At a bare minimum I need an AC, cams, and pipe. I wouldn't mind doing some head work and/or pistons for compression while I'm in there. I'm traditionally a car guy so I haven't been inside one of these yet, so I'm not sure exactly what I'll need and want. Cost really isn't too much of a concern, rather down time. I don't want the thing to be in pieces for too long.
I want a nice lopey cam, for sure. Nothing too unstreetable/tunable, but something fairly more radical than mild....
Headwork?
Other necessities? Throttle body?
I want a clean open element look on the AC, maybe a big sucker? Which one might flow the best?
I'd like to justify getting the big boar baffle if possible. Their site says "stage 4 103's +" for the big boar, and to stock 103's for the louvered. This leaves a bit of room for question.
Obviously this is all preliminary stuff, and I'm rusty, but I'd like to get this underway in the next week or so. I know this is a lot, but if I receive enough help I promise to take a lot of pictures
What would you do??
Cruiser
Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 151
Likes: 0
From: Monticello Indiana
I wont get into cam recommendations or other part selections but I will throw out some questions you have to answer yourself as the best starting point.
were do ya ride, back rods/hilly country side, interstates, just around town, 2 up loaded with gear or solo...
were do you want your power in the rpm range? down low or up high
how much cash do you really want to spend?
Do you have a very reputable tuner/dyno operator locally?
These answers will need to be answered then you should find out what tuner your dyno man likes or is willing to work with aka tts, sept, powervision, thundermax etc
static compression needed will directly be dependant on what cam you choose due to intake closing affecting corrected/dynamic compression. this is VERY important to get correct.
The cam selection will decide the complete personality of were the engine likes to run in the rpm range. (needs to be tailored to the riding conditions and what you like to run in rpms).
Head work is always worth it as long as you get the heads done to match your build, bigger is NOT always better same goes with the throttle body. Too big and ya loose low end torque to gain some high rpm HP
Call around to several place like fuelmoto, hillside, tman, woods etc (several top notch sponsors/builders on this forum to choose from)
pay specific attention to head chamber cc, head gasket thickness, intake valve closing, piston dome cc. these all need to be matched up correctly for your displacement to get the static and dynamic compression you need to have great results.
That is a the best advice I can give you.... I do have preferences to some companies/manufactures but I will leave this as unbiased as possible
Doug
were do ya ride, back rods/hilly country side, interstates, just around town, 2 up loaded with gear or solo...
were do you want your power in the rpm range? down low or up high
how much cash do you really want to spend?
Do you have a very reputable tuner/dyno operator locally?
These answers will need to be answered then you should find out what tuner your dyno man likes or is willing to work with aka tts, sept, powervision, thundermax etc
static compression needed will directly be dependant on what cam you choose due to intake closing affecting corrected/dynamic compression. this is VERY important to get correct.
The cam selection will decide the complete personality of were the engine likes to run in the rpm range. (needs to be tailored to the riding conditions and what you like to run in rpms).
Head work is always worth it as long as you get the heads done to match your build, bigger is NOT always better same goes with the throttle body. Too big and ya loose low end torque to gain some high rpm HP
Call around to several place like fuelmoto, hillside, tman, woods etc (several top notch sponsors/builders on this forum to choose from)
pay specific attention to head chamber cc, head gasket thickness, intake valve closing, piston dome cc. these all need to be matched up correctly for your displacement to get the static and dynamic compression you need to have great results.
That is a the best advice I can give you.... I do have preferences to some companies/manufactures but I will leave this as unbiased as possible
Doug
Thread Starter
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Tourer
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 446
Likes: 0
From: Wilmington, NC
Thanks for the info Doug.
I'm at the beach so it's all flat terrain around here. Mostly solo riding around town, with the occasional girlfriend on the back. Some freeway. I'm not so much worried about top end power to the point of losing usable torque. I am planning on doing the preliminary tune with TTS myself (have used it before).
I don't NEED to go too crazy, I just want some nice lope and some more power. If it's feasible to go all out then I will consider it. I also don't want to blow anything up, so reliability is important.
As far as how much $$$, maybe $1000-2000 or more maybe, not including the pipe, tuner, and AC, since I need to get wheels as well. This is mostly dependent upon the best-case scenario. I don't want to skimp and sacrifice quality.
I'm at the beach so it's all flat terrain around here. Mostly solo riding around town, with the occasional girlfriend on the back. Some freeway. I'm not so much worried about top end power to the point of losing usable torque. I am planning on doing the preliminary tune with TTS myself (have used it before).
I don't NEED to go too crazy, I just want some nice lope and some more power. If it's feasible to go all out then I will consider it. I also don't want to blow anything up, so reliability is important.
As far as how much $$$, maybe $1000-2000 or more maybe, not including the pipe, tuner, and AC, since I need to get wheels as well. This is mostly dependent upon the best-case scenario. I don't want to skimp and sacrifice quality.
Last edited by Pepsimayn; Mar 2, 2013 at 02:29 PM.
Cruiser
Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 151
Likes: 0
From: Monticello Indiana
Ok cool, "lope" is mostly correlated to overlap in valve timing from the cam. Higher overlap causes reversion during the intake process at low rpm and idle giving you the "lopey" idle. The gain with higher overlap is better scavanging with good head flow and correct exhaust at higher rpm ranges. It is a tradeoff really. Valve lift needs to be considered when head work is done, stock heads stop gaining flow around the .400" lift area or a touch over that. Also stock heads can only take cams with around the .560" lift before you run into valve train mechanical issues. I would tend to say with some head work you would want to stay in the 40 to maybe 50 in the overlap and the intake closing around the upper 30 to mid 40 area with the CORRECT compression ratio. Your goal on compression will be in the 9.5 corrected/dynamic and the 190 - 195 range for static/cold cranking compression. Go much above this and tuning becomes tricky and spark knock becomes a big problem.
here is a link to a cool calculator to play with
http://www.bigboyzcycles.com/TwinCamComp.htm
they have a cam comparison calc too on the same site.
Doug
here is a link to a cool calculator to play with
http://www.bigboyzcycles.com/TwinCamComp.htm
they have a cam comparison calc too on the same site.
Doug
Cruiser
Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 151
Likes: 0
From: Monticello Indiana
That is a great option and I am very happy with my 107 build from FM. I was just staying unbiased on any specific company out of respect to the forum sponsors other than FM. Jamie, Keith, n Brian at FM are great to deal with and will help you with any questions. I don't have there B heads but sure wish I did. The 107 with B heads and the 888 I would also get the T body work done also. You won't be disappointed!!!! Play around with that calculator in the previous link and compare those 2 cam choices for compression ratios. Also check out woods website at dyno charts as another resource if you haven't already...
The base 107 kit uses 10.25 compression pistons and a .030 gasket with the 85cc stock heads. Piston are by CP and a -1.5 dome. Using that calc I linked the only way I get 10.25 is using a .040 gasket number so not sure whats up with that. May have to call Jamie to find out. Either way I am super happy with there kit!
Doug
The base 107 kit uses 10.25 compression pistons and a .030 gasket with the 85cc stock heads. Piston are by CP and a -1.5 dome. Using that calc I linked the only way I get 10.25 is using a .040 gasket number so not sure whats up with that. May have to call Jamie to find out. Either way I am super happy with there kit!
Doug
Thread Starter
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Tourer
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 446
Likes: 0
From: Wilmington, NC
Ha, I didn't even notice in your sig that that's what you have. I will take a look into it. What about bottom end at that point? I think I would want at least the TW-888 cam.
Will just any aftermarket AC work or should I be looking at something in particular?
Thanks for the help!
Will just any aftermarket AC work or should I be looking at something in particular?
Thanks for the help!
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Cruiser
Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 151
Likes: 0
From: Monticello Indiana
I think the bottom end would be fine at that level, unless you intend on upping the revs past 6200. And/or you plan on revving it to the extreme all the time then you may want to have the crank checked and at that point if it needs trued or pinned and welded you are in a whole new ball game price wise and work needed. But a 107 and not hitting the rev limiter every time ya shift every time ya ride should be fine I would think. Air cleaner question I will leave to someone else, there are some really good ones and some that just look really good. You will be best to ask FM or who ever you end up going with that question. You will for sure want to talk about compression with those cam options/specs. Late intake valve closing so you will need something in the 10.5 area or a touch more to get ccp up to the 195 area or it will be a complete dog at low rpm.
edit: also the tw-8-6 you have no choice but head work due to the lift and the later intake valve closing will require higher ccp than the 888, the power curve will also be moved to the right (higher rpm) than the 888.
edit: also the tw-8-6 you have no choice but head work due to the lift and the later intake valve closing will require higher ccp than the 888, the power curve will also be moved to the right (higher rpm) than the 888.
Last edited by Raccerx67; Mar 2, 2013 at 04:28 PM.
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