Feb 13, 2015, 01:41 PM
Last edit by: IB Advertising
Everything Breakout! Find out everything you need to know! Some topics include:
• Customizing you bike
• Seats
• Risers
• And much more!
For more information check out these threads:More Threads
• Customizing you bike
• Seats
• Risers
• And much more!
For more information check out these threads:More Threads
The Everything Breakout Thread
Outstanding HDF Member
Joined: Jun 2014
Posts: 3,185
Likes: 189
From: 90210
By the way, for those considering the Primo Rivera Game Changer kit to up the primary gear raito by almost 6%, Primo Rivera just confirmed to me the correct part number for the version of the Game Change kit that works for the Breakout:
1066-0051 is the #
Thank You
Mike Seright
Rivera Primo
Warehouse Operations Manager
562-907-2600
Sales: 800-872-1515
(The instructions for the kit refer to TWO kits: the 1066-0051 and the 1066-0050, without explaining the applicability or differences. Apoaprently, the 1066-0051 is the right one for the Breakout)
Jim G
1066-0051 is the #
Thank You
Mike Seright
Rivera Primo
Warehouse Operations Manager
562-907-2600
Sales: 800-872-1515
(The instructions for the kit refer to TWO kits: the 1066-0051 and the 1066-0050, without explaining the applicability or differences. Apoaprently, the 1066-0051 is the right one for the Breakout)
Jim G
Outstanding HDF Member
Joined: Jun 2014
Posts: 3,185
Likes: 189
From: 90210
BTW I got my Arlen Ness 70t contrast cut rear pulley sitting here in front of me. What a nice piece of jewelry! lol. It is for a 2004-2006 FLHT. Normally I would not have got this for a test piece but was stupid cheap on ebay.
Test fitment on my stock breakout wheel (I keep the wheel and other parts in my shop for just these kinds of experiments) shows it fits the hub and bolt holes nicely. Measuring the pulley offset of the Ness pulley sitting on the wheel vs the stock pulley sitting on the wheel shows it needs to be shimmed outwards exactly 1/4" - but no big deal since the .250 pulley shims are cheap and plentiful on ebay (bikers choice - just ordered one for $9.95)
The new PM rear wheel is exactly the same offset and dimensional measurements as the stock wheel so test fitting against the stock wheel is acceptable.
So if this works, you know what this means Jim- you can get just about any aftermarket 2004-2006 FLHT pulley for your bike, shim, bolts, done. Like the cool chrome ones from DNA or similar that would match up ok with the CVO wheels. Or even a stock HD chrome one. I'm also pretty sure any of the 2006 Dyna 70t pulleys will fit as well, either stock or quality aftermarket.
My belt adjustment with the 30t / 68t is just a hair forward the middle of the adjuster slot so it should be enough room to go 2 teeth larger to 70. My figures showed I need an added 5/16" (0.31) of adjustment and I seem to have that.
I'm hoping to have it on by next week- waiting on the shim to show up and need to pick up some longer alan head bolts.
Test fitment on my stock breakout wheel (I keep the wheel and other parts in my shop for just these kinds of experiments) shows it fits the hub and bolt holes nicely. Measuring the pulley offset of the Ness pulley sitting on the wheel vs the stock pulley sitting on the wheel shows it needs to be shimmed outwards exactly 1/4" - but no big deal since the .250 pulley shims are cheap and plentiful on ebay (bikers choice - just ordered one for $9.95)
The new PM rear wheel is exactly the same offset and dimensional measurements as the stock wheel so test fitting against the stock wheel is acceptable.
So if this works, you know what this means Jim- you can get just about any aftermarket 2004-2006 FLHT pulley for your bike, shim, bolts, done. Like the cool chrome ones from DNA or similar that would match up ok with the CVO wheels. Or even a stock HD chrome one. I'm also pretty sure any of the 2006 Dyna 70t pulleys will fit as well, either stock or quality aftermarket.
My belt adjustment with the 30t / 68t is just a hair forward the middle of the adjuster slot so it should be enough room to go 2 teeth larger to 70. My figures showed I need an added 5/16" (0.31) of adjustment and I seem to have that.
I'm hoping to have it on by next week- waiting on the shim to show up and need to pick up some longer alan head bolts.
Last edited by LA_Dog; Jan 12, 2016 at 01:50 AM.
Outstanding HDF Member
Joined: Jun 2014
Posts: 3,185
Likes: 189
From: 90210
Thanks everyone for the input. looks like i have some more research to do. other then a few cosmetic changes i don't think I'm gonna do much more then a stage 1 performance upgrade, but who knows by summer i may be heading for a stage 2 or 3 lol
Ill posts some pics as soon as i upload them into my puter in the days to come
Ill posts some pics as soon as i upload them into my puter in the days to come
I also wanted something that let me change the speedometer calibration since I knew I'd be doing the 30t/68t pulley swaps, which BTW is a massive improvement on fun factor (almost 10% increase in TQ!). Plus if you do a cams upgrade later the better drive ratio will get you even more out of the new cams. It is a zero downside upgrade.
Downside is it takes a bit more learning curve to understand the Powervision but once you do it is extremely cool. If you buy from FuelMoto you'll have a decent support source. Plus we have the "Powervision Information Thread" here on the forum, and those of us who use this tuner can share knowledge, tuning maps, etc.
Last edited by LA_Dog; Jan 12, 2016 at 01:40 AM.
Cruiser
Joined: Nov 2013
Posts: 145
Likes: 2
From: Kobe, Japan
couldnt feel any difference except the popping stopped ! Of course I did AutoTune and I also had Chris from the service center to have a look, but nothing changed !
Have to say the my bike is international model, but Chris said it doesnt matter, which I started not to believe so I asked FuelMoto about their DynoJet and here the staff was really friendly and offered me to pre install for the bikes set up..........But after I told him that my bike was international model, he told me honestly they dont have any maps for it, only for the US models.
So Im sure V&H only wants to sell or their staff doesnt know enough and after I got the dynojet and had it programmed WoW what a difference !
Have to say the my bike is international model, but Chris said it doesnt matter, which I started not to believe so I asked FuelMoto about their DynoJet and here the staff was really friendly and offered me to pre install for the bikes set up..........But after I told him that my bike was international model, he told me honestly they dont have any maps for it, only for the US models.
So Im sure V&H only wants to sell or their staff doesnt know enough and after I got the dynojet and had it programmed WoW what a difference !
Stellar HDF Member
Joined: Feb 2014
Posts: 2,710
Likes: 528
From: Lethbridge, Alberta Canada
Jim- Good info addition thanks! I think one of the main concerns with doing this or changing the clutch basket gearing is messing with the 6th gear light and (for touring bikes) it messes with the cruise control. Probably can be fixed by altering gear ratios in the ECM tune map file but bears some investigation. anyway that's just the forum chit chat I've come across..
Jim G
Outstanding HDF Member
Joined: Jun 2014
Posts: 3,185
Likes: 189
From: 90210
I read some various tech forum commentary (google for "how does the harley 6th gear light work") that the sensor for the 6th gear light is kind of finicky in how it determines 6th. It is supposedly based on vehicle speed and engine rpm, the ECM makes a determination to turn it on or not - but it can be sensitive to certain changes and most of the issues seem to be relating to changing the motor or clutch sprockets. There are even a few threads on guys losing the light after a dyno tune. I did not find any threads where the 6th light was lost due to belt pulley swaps.
But hell I never even look at my 6th light anyway so overall who cares
Stellar HDF Member
Joined: Feb 2014
Posts: 2,710
Likes: 528
From: Lethbridge, Alberta Canada
Yep it does- Love the Powervision for that. and here are a couple of good online calculators for revising the ratios based on the primary motor / clutch / tranny data-
I read some various tech forum commentary (google for "how does the harley 6th gear light work") that the sensor for the 6th gear light is kind of finicky in how it determines 6th. It is supposedly based on vehicle speed and engine rpm, the ECM makes a determination to turn it on or not - but it can be sensitive to certain changes and most of the issues seem to be relating to changing the motor or clutch sprockets. There are even a few threads on guys losing the light after a dyno tune. I did not find any threads where the 6th light was lost due to belt pulley swaps.
But hell I never even look at my 6th light anyway so overall who cares
I read some various tech forum commentary (google for "how does the harley 6th gear light work") that the sensor for the 6th gear light is kind of finicky in how it determines 6th. It is supposedly based on vehicle speed and engine rpm, the ECM makes a determination to turn it on or not - but it can be sensitive to certain changes and most of the issues seem to be relating to changing the motor or clutch sprockets. There are even a few threads on guys losing the light after a dyno tune. I did not find any threads where the 6th light was lost due to belt pulley swaps.
But hell I never even look at my 6th light anyway so overall who cares
Jim G
Outstanding HDF Member
Joined: Jun 2014
Posts: 3,185
Likes: 189
From: 90210
here's some info I found posted. best answer I've come across so far. (i did clean it up a bit so it made more sense / shorter)
Here is a response from Dakota Digital ....
The ECM is programmed to see a certain rpm for the speed being indicated on the VSS. If you mess with this rpm-to-speed ratio the ECM will NOT see the programmed parameters and 6th gear light (or cruise) will not work. (the rpm parameters are hard coded in the ECM)
You changed that when you altered your speed via motor or clutch sprockets. If the speed is off by 6%, you have a window of +/-3% for the 6th gear and cruise to work.
You can fix it if you make your speedometer off a bit but not as much as it was before. As long as it is within a certain rpm-to-speed ratio window the ECM needs to see, it will work.
Again keep in mind this is not solely rpm based or solely speed based, it is "ratio" based e.g. the ratio of rpm to speed. It is a pre-programmed ratio window in the ECM.
Here is a response from Dakota Digital ....
The ECM is programmed to see a certain rpm for the speed being indicated on the VSS. If you mess with this rpm-to-speed ratio the ECM will NOT see the programmed parameters and 6th gear light (or cruise) will not work. (the rpm parameters are hard coded in the ECM)
You changed that when you altered your speed via motor or clutch sprockets. If the speed is off by 6%, you have a window of +/-3% for the 6th gear and cruise to work.
You can fix it if you make your speedometer off a bit but not as much as it was before. As long as it is within a certain rpm-to-speed ratio window the ECM needs to see, it will work.
Again keep in mind this is not solely rpm based or solely speed based, it is "ratio" based e.g. the ratio of rpm to speed. It is a pre-programmed ratio window in the ECM.
Last edited by LA_Dog; Jan 13, 2016 at 09:50 AM. Reason: clarification
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Outstanding HDF Member
Joined: Jun 2014
Posts: 3,185
Likes: 189
From: 90210
With the accessory instrument from HD, the one I have that has a large analog tachometer, small digital speedometer, and small digital gear indicator, there is no 6th gear light - instead the instrument displays the current gear (1,2,3,4,5, or 6). I imagine that correcting that factor in PowerVision is important to keeping that gear display working, if I ever make the gear swap.
Jim G
Jim G
Last edited by LA_Dog; Jan 13, 2016 at 09:51 AM.
Stellar HDF Member
Joined: Feb 2014
Posts: 2,710
Likes: 528
From: Lethbridge, Alberta Canada
But to think that Dakota Digital, a company who knows better, participated in this, is disheartening.
Jim G