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TTS: Milwaukee 8 Testing
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Joined: Jul 2009
Posts: 4,310
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I'm not sure what typo you're referring to. The stock cam intake lift is .35 (same as 0.350). For simplicity I was just referencing the intake lift for comparison with the intake lift of the SE498 (.498). I was trying to highlight the difference of .148 intake lift difference between the stock and "power" cam in the stage 3 kits. I have to assume significant longevity testing was completed with the .498 lift combined with the hi-perf valve springs since HD is including this combination in both their factory warranty as well as their ESP coverage.
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Joined: Jul 2009
Posts: 4,310
Likes: 1,079
Thread Starter
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HD EFI Guru
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 4,490
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I'm not sure what typo you're referring to. The stock cam intake lift is .35 (same as 0.350). For simplicity I was just referencing the intake lift for comparison with the intake lift of the SE498 (.498). I was trying to highlight the difference of .148 intake lift difference between the stock and "power" cam in the stage 3 kits. I have to assume significant longevity testing was completed with the .498 lift combined with the hi-perf valve springs since HD is including this combination in both their factory warranty as well as their ESP coverage.
Member
Joined: Jul 2009
Posts: 4,310
Likes: 1,079
No problem, I just want to make sure that you and everyone understood the stock cam has more lift. The funny thing about the HD warranty, Why if you modify the engine to Stage III within 60 days of new they cover it, but do the exact same modification in 90 days and they will not?
No idea why 60 days vs 90 days other than to drive service work to the selling dealers as close to the sale as possible. Mostly a dealer service incentive IMO. Whatever the reason, I took advantage of my local Dealer's 20%off Parts AND labor to get the Stage 3 performance kit installed on my '17 CVO Limited. I was motivated to get the full warranty coverage for the upgrade. So i guess their marketing strategy worked... at least on me.
Member
Joined: Jul 2009
Posts: 4,310
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Do you have ESP on your new bike? If so will they cover your motor upgrades? If so who's the ESP provider? Most of the ones i've dealt with will not honor upgrades, even dealer installed upgrades. I did have one come in with a trashed 103, after discussing crate options with my customer he decided to call the ESP company and see what they would cover moving forward. They did tell him that they would cover any crate engine offered at the time his bike was purchased, he inquired about the 110" and they told him yes they would cover it but he had to pay the difference in the cost of the crate.
http://www.discountesp.com/
I haven't secured an ESP yet as I'm covered for 2years under my HD Factory Warranty. So long as I purchase ESP coverage at least 1 month before the factory coverage expires there is no issue getting an additional 1-5 years of additional warranty coverage. While I haven't decided which ESP to purchase in the future, I am leaning towards the plan below (Cornerstone United) that is accepted by every HD dealer as well as independents and includes coverage for upgrades.
http://www.discountesp.com/
http://www.discountesp.com/
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Cruiser
Joined: Jul 2016
Posts: 116
Likes: 10
From: CT
Any idea on labor costs for stage II and Stage III upgrades? I now have a 2017 RGS with stage I upgrades (SE mufflers, air cleaner and street tuner). 101.74 torque and 82.71 HP.
Last edited by 2016CTRoadGlide; Dec 30, 2016 at 03:40 PM.
Tourer
Joined: Mar 2015
Posts: 406
Likes: 181
From: xyzzy
Oil Coking?
The weather has warmed back up to the same as the first round of testing. Now the bike is equipped with full instrumentation and recording of the ECM data along with the Front Cylinder Head temperature, Rear Cylinder Head temperature, Oil Sump temperature and Head Oil Return temperature. I saw slightly less Measured Engine temperature on this ride than I did in the first testing, 351 F the first time and 340 F this time. The ride was in-town running posted speed limits with light to no traffic, for about 18 miles.
Conditions:
Ambient temperature during testing upper 70's
In Town riding with little traffic but normal stop lights
Speed limited to posted speed limits (35 - 45 mph)
Results:
Measured Peak Engine temperature = 340 F
Measured Peak Oil Sump temperature = 267 F
Measured Peak Head Oil Return temperature = 290 F
So for me, its change the oil to full synthetic and wait for the fan assisted oil cooler to come off back order. Once the new oil cooler arrives I will install and test again. If it works in the low speed areas as I hope, then it would be a must add for those of us in the warmer areas of the country that ride in town with an Oil Cooled model of the M8. The cooler I'm talking about is stock on Police bikes and trikes!
Conditions:
Ambient temperature during testing upper 70's
In Town riding with little traffic but normal stop lights
Speed limited to posted speed limits (35 - 45 mph)
Results:
Measured Peak Engine temperature = 340 F
Measured Peak Oil Sump temperature = 267 F
Measured Peak Head Oil Return temperature = 290 F
So for me, its change the oil to full synthetic and wait for the fan assisted oil cooler to come off back order. Once the new oil cooler arrives I will install and test again. If it works in the low speed areas as I hope, then it would be a must add for those of us in the warmer areas of the country that ride in town with an Oil Cooled model of the M8. The cooler I'm talking about is stock on Police bikes and trikes!
I'm wondering about the temperatures of the engine oil in the passage surrounding the exhaust valve after the engine is shut down. If you're seeing return temps of 290 F when the engine is running under fairly benign conditions, it stands to reason that when the oil stops circulating those temps are sure to rise by quite a bit. I have concern because folks that have turbos on their car engines claim they have trouble with the oil coking (turning into a hard goo) in their turbo's oil passages unless they do an "idle cool down" or, better yet, have a water cooled turbo with a post run electric water pump. And some of them claim that coking sets in at oil temps as low as 300 F. Anyway, it would seem there are some similarities between the post operating temps seen in the passage surrounding the M8's exhaust valve and the bearing housing of a turbo. In any case, it sure would be interesting to know how hot the oil gets that surrounds the M8's exhaust valve in a post operation heat soak situation. That number could be downright scary.
The bottom line is I sure hope the folks at the Mothership performed thorough life/abuse testing and all is well 'cause your numbers sure don't look there is much margin in their design. Sigh.