Nor do the bullshitters who came to this party..., only to walk away butt hurt

facts are facts

Ghost

 

One added thought as the test parameters are being laid out; what tuning device are you using?

If you can read ET, engine temperature from the sensor on the rear of the front cylinder we'd be able to correlate observed ET with you physically checking your oil temperatures and develop a baseline of ET to oil temperatures.

I've never checked oil temperatures as you plan to do, I've relied on the ET as my baseline for changes I make. To know how the engine temperature compares to the observed oil temperatures would be a great help.

See what your ET is as you shut down the bike, then physically check the oil temperatures; nice. And yea, this entire project will require many beers to see it through; I hope you're ready; I am

 

I've certainly felt flattered by all the attention, but didn't you and others express a desire to stick to the original topic? Yet you're still talking about our little foray three days later?

 

Sounds epic, Ghost. Many thanks for all the effort!

 

Interesting experiment you're working on. I have often wondered (but never tested) the Wimmer Tube Oil Coolers.


I have done thousands of hours and 10's of thousands of miles work on getting Twin Cam Engine temps down, both by cooling the oil, and cooling the actual external engine metal...which is one of the primary causes of the oil getting hot. The other cause is that oil is squirted up onto the bottom of the pistons to cool them.

I have published much of my work, including results listing temperature changes in this REPORT.


In measuring oil temps I used many different ways of measuring....

Outside of cooler, outside of oil pan, outside of the oil filter and the actual oil itself, at the fill hole being a few of them.

In doing testing, keeping everything controlled/consistent is paramount, so the oil measurement, taken at the fill hole is the one that I use in all my reporting.



Additionally, and very importantly, is when the oil temp is measured. As you begin your testing, you may find the same thing I have....

Example 1: 40 mile run at 70 mph in 6th, no wind, level road, ambient temp 70*. Stop on side of interstate 15 seconds after letting off the throttle. 15 seconds later take oil temp. Result 225*

Example 2: 40 mile run at 70 mph in 6th, no wind, level road, ambient temp 70*. Stop on side of interstate 15 seconds after letting off the throttle. 30 seconds later take oil temp. Result 220*

Example 3: 40 mile run at 70 mph in 6th, no wind, level road, ambient temp 70*. Exit the interstate, slowing down over the 1/8th mile exit ramp. 15 seconds after stopping, take oil temp. Result 216*

The differences can be significant, so I found it important to have a per-determined, repeatable procedure, since a variance of even 15 seconds between two tests can give inaccurate comparisons. Also, even 15 seconds of riding at a low load (slowing down) vs. a 70 mph load can easily make a 10* or more difference in oil temp.


Also, of note are a few other variables that make significant differences:

Engine needs to be fully warmed up. By this I mean that the oil temp is no longer climbing. How long this takes will vary bike to bike, and ambient temp and riding speed will factor in also. I've found that for me, it usually is in the 60 mile area, at 70-80 mph, to get the engine fully "heat soaked".


If there is any wind, this will play a LARGE role in measuring heat for two reasons:

1. Drag on the bike (headwind) making it work harder, generating more heat. Tailwind pushing the bike, taking a load off, equaling less heat. Crosswind giving additional cooling to both cylinders.

2. The same wind factors listed above will also have a measurable effect on the amount of cooling the oil cooler(s) produce for the oil.

You can do exactly the same run, all variables the same, except a 10 mph difference in headwind, and you can end up with a 10-15* difference in oil temp.


The rabbit hole is almost endless, but the above are some of the important variables to be aware of in getting accurate before/after comparisons.

 

I feel like I should be getting Continuing Education Units for reading this forum. Excellent post, sir!


I'm also curious about the 'net' cooling results, for oil coolers and the filter relocation. Mounting an oil cooler in front of the front cylinder might cool the oil, but then your cylinder temps might be higher. What is the net result?

There was a post with an oil cooler mounted behind the downtube with a baffle to the outside. (high pressure air towards the inside, low pressure air outboard = pulls air across cooler)

Seems the further away you can get the cooler/filter from the engine, the better the 'net' cooling. No sense dumping heat back on the engine.


.

 

Filter re location in it's self will get you 1-2 degrees max. I was told that from someone I trust.

 

Just to add to the database I don't have any data for the stock configuration but I do have a data collection run for 25 miles of 80+ MPH cruise on a 80 degree day. what it does show is a stable 266 degree cylinder head temperature for most of the ride which I think is pretty good for a stock engine with a pipe and air filter running in closed loop. This is an in process tune using TTS Mastertune.



My cooler setup is a vertical inline Jagg ten row with a ported cooler adapter, -6 AN fittings, braided hose, K&N P/N 173B long style EVO oil filter, and Red Line 20-50 oil. This combination adds about a pint of oil capacity to the oiling system.



: Mike

 

Glad to see this back on track, look forward to the results.

 

Not a pissing match..., nor desire to debate - consider these simply as data points

* 70 MPH in 6th - my motor is lugging like hell (and obviously generating add'l heat)

* We had a previous conservation - where another member asked about AN connectors and their benefit - to wit I explained the benefit over barbed

You responded to the affect - they're was no benefit (not merit..., rather benefit)

Ever since then..., I consider that when reading your posts (being honest..., not busting on ya)

* Paralysis by analysis - we are gong to avoid - simple and straightforward

Then post the results - it is what it is - subject to each individual's interpretation of any benefit

* Runs will be long enough to ensure motor is heat saturated - and as aggressive as I can make em

Ghost