Power Vision Information Thread
Road Warrior
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 1,900
Likes: 12
I said that some show more than others.
Yes, there are hard coded rules I am sure of it, and some software available to some people probably show more, but to the general public, and to the tuners not on the assembly line you have more than enough to tune the bike, and like was said, "some tuning devices show more than others." <-not verbatim
And I never said put the same VE in the rear as the front, and I never said that there was just one VE table to adjust.
Inside these options are other options, some are adjusted/applied by temp.
My post was more so to imply that the poster I replied to should not be discouraged from purchasing the PV just because a shop acts like the PV is some obscure tuning device. It isn't, and they should be able to tune his bike if they are competent in tuning motorcycles with Delphi FI. Am I wrong in saying this?
This capture is from a device other than the PV when in advanced mode using AFR and not using Lambda values for AFR or throttle progressivity.
Yes, there are hard coded rules I am sure of it, and some software available to some people probably show more, but to the general public, and to the tuners not on the assembly line you have more than enough to tune the bike, and like was said, "some tuning devices show more than others." <-not verbatim
And I never said put the same VE in the rear as the front, and I never said that there was just one VE table to adjust.
Inside these options are other options, some are adjusted/applied by temp.
My post was more so to imply that the poster I replied to should not be discouraged from purchasing the PV just because a shop acts like the PV is some obscure tuning device. It isn't, and they should be able to tune his bike if they are competent in tuning motorcycles with Delphi FI. Am I wrong in saying this?
This capture is from a device other than the PV when in advanced mode using AFR and not using Lambda values for AFR or throttle progressivity.
Last edited by editbrain; Dec 4, 2011 at 08:02 PM.
Advanced
Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 57
Likes: 0
From: France
Dynojet Power Vision now supports ALL 2012 H-D models, including the '12 Dyna and Softail. Power Vision now supports all 2001 / 2002 to -current 2012 models including the new '12 Dyna and Softail Models! If you've been following along, you'd know the '12 Dyna and Softail use a new ECM with CAN-bus communication broadcasting on the HD-LAN. This ECM is new, and different than the two CAN-bus ECMs used on last years Softail, and Softail CVO. After months of testing with the new ECM and calibration that's buried inside it, were excited to unlock the potential of these bikes. Not to leave the V-Rod guys hanging, this update also includes support for the new 177 Software Level calibrations that are present in the 2012 V-Rods. All you need to do is use the update client to update your Power Vision to the latest Tune / Config Database and firmware, PV_TUNEDB-0.0.9.7.pvu and PV_FIRMWARE-1.0.7-971.pvu respectively. This Tune / Config Database does include new tune files for many models, including the '12 Dyna and Softail. They are available via the update client within the Tune / Config Database, and will be posted on the Power Vision website soon (the tune files are consistent between the tune database and the website). Not sure which part number supports which model? PV-1 Power Vision for All J1850 ECM Harley-Davidson Models (Excludes 2011-2012 Softails, and 2012 Dyna) Supported Models:
2001-2010 Softails
2002-Present Touring
2002-Present V-Rod
2004-2011 Dyna
07-Present Sportsters
PV-2 Power Vision for all CAN ECM Harley-Davidson Models Supported Models:
20011-2012 Softails (includes CVO)
2012 Dyna (includes Switchback)
2001-2010 Softails
2002-Present Touring
2002-Present V-Rod
2004-2011 Dyna
07-Present Sportsters
PV-2 Power Vision for all CAN ECM Harley-Davidson Models Supported Models:
20011-2012 Softails (includes CVO)
2012 Dyna (includes Switchback)
Is there a fresh link for downloading the latest userguides for WinPV and logtuner ?
Road Master
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 1,177
Likes: 23
Road Warrior
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 1,549
Likes: 18
From: Upstate SC
So when we're done with VE tuning runs, what then? Do we put the HD O2's back in and turn on adaptive fuel? What about the AFR tables? I set mine to 13.0 for the tuning runs. I guess I'm still thinking in the PCV frame of mind. I think I understand that the VE tables are the real deal, but don't you still demand a certain AFR as a target too? From everything I've read it seems the AFR tables are only used to determine open/closed loop.
From the PCV way of thinking, we used the AFRs to richen or lean the tune. Is it the same here, just after getting the VEs sorted out so you know how much air you're really moving?
From the PCV way of thinking, we used the AFRs to richen or lean the tune. Is it the same here, just after getting the VEs sorted out so you know how much air you're really moving?
Here is an article that appeared in American Iron that you may find helpful.
http://www.drdyno.com/AIM_2010-07.html
Last edited by JustDennis; Dec 5, 2011 at 07:51 AM.
Road Master
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 1,177
Likes: 23
Note that the article is written from a Harley MOCO standpoint and he claimes that the existing tune can not be extraacted from the ECU. PowerVision allows you to extract almost any Harley format tune off the bike that the PowerVision is married to.
Beast
Beast
Road Warrior
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 1,549
Likes: 18
From: Upstate SC
True. At the time the article was written, there was not a way to extract the tune from the ECM but the PowerVision changed that! The thing I like about the article is the relatively simple explanation of closed-loop/open-loop. Not sure I would characterize it as being from the MOCO standpoint since he is recommending open-loop and talking about the problems closed-loop brings.
Last edited by JustDennis; Dec 5, 2011 at 08:59 AM.
Road Master
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 1,237
Likes: 61
From: Albany, OR
You can do what you describe above. Once you set the VE tables, you have tuned the map to your bikes characteristics and it will perform as the AFR, ignition and other tables of your map dictate. If you are happy with the map you have then you are done. You could also go to an open loop map by setting the AFRs to something other than 14.6. The AFR value selected determines how much fuel is delivered. If you want to run at 14.6, that is closed loop. 14.6 is the best EPA AFR but it is not the best AFR for performance. I currently run an open loop map on my 2008 FLHT that performs really well. For me, an AFR between 13.8 and 14.2 performs really well, still gets good gas mileage and cools the engine better than 14.6.
Here is an article that appeared in American Iron that you may find helpful.
http://www.drdyno.com/AIM_2010-07.html
Here is an article that appeared in American Iron that you may find helpful.
http://www.drdyno.com/AIM_2010-07.html
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Road Warrior
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 1,549
Likes: 18
From: Upstate SC
Thanks. So AFR still has a role. So we could grab an AFR table that worked well in a PCV map and use it once the VE tables are set. I like to use a table where a narrow cruise range is close to 14.6 for mileage but gets rich quickly for acceleration and passing. So will the ECU do trims in the closed loop section of a map using the HD O2's? Do we want to reset those when we flash after running a map that has a closed loop section?
Road Master
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 1,237
Likes: 61
From: Albany, OR
Yes AFR plays a primary role in how the Map functions. You could use an AFR table that worked well in a PCV map and use it once the VEs are set. If your question regarding ECU trims is in reference to the adaptive fuel feature of the ECM with stock O2 sensors, then yes that will continue to work in the closed-loop section of the map as long as it is enabled in the map and the O2 sensors are connected. Flashing a new map to the ECM resets those trim values. You can also manually reset them using the PV without flashing a new tune.
On the VE table values, what is the data type? Is it a percentage or some other value type? When looking at my delta's between my first two tuning runs, I still have values in the .9 to 1.2 range in certain cells, in and around cruise range. DJ says to keep doing runs until you see almost no deltas, maybe 2% or less change.