good deal, that was what I was going to say.

if you see my above posts, i asked about faking the AFR using VIEDS...to make the PV run richer, but that is stupid, becuase the Quick Tune can apply a 5% richness to the entire map.

so here is what I do: I run a few autotunes, and load them into the ECM, and then I add 5% to fuel and 5% to VE tables, and that makes it rich enough to cool it down to be rideable.

one of the expertNutz may chime in and tell us why that is wrong, but PV basic autotune leaves my bike too hot, around 300 at the heads with an infrared heat gun.

doing the 5% fuel & 5% VE (would 10% VE be better?) brings it down to around 270 degrees.

you need to set up the PV gauges to show you head temperature also, that will tell you how hot the motor is factually, because SOP felt heat is so varied. (my motor knocks when the heads are around 300 by heat gun, have not had the PV on it when the motor knocks)

part of the fun of the new bike & the PV is playing with it & learning new stuff,

 

Your procedure is not a bad idea at all. After a lot of trial and error(and ignoring some of the "expert" advice in this thread) I've learned to take the AT results as a "suggestion". Rideability, knocking and temperature are all better when I don't let the AT sessions lean out the VE tables as much as it wants to.

In my case, my AT sessions ended up leaning out my VEs as much as 10% leaner than STOCK. While my stage 1 setup may not flow a ton more than stock, it is obvious to anyone with a brain that going leaner than stock makes absolutely no sense. No one would suggest slapping on a high flow intake and exhaust without adding fuel to the tune, yet some of these clowns would have you trust the PV when it says to go even leaner! In addition, even after 5 or so AT sessions, your VE tables look like a retarded monkey randomly pounded out numbers...you'll have an 84 cell right up against a bunch of 100 cells. If you look at the stock VEs, you'll notice one thing above all else...it is SMOOTH. That's what you want in the VE tables.

Now if you're running an AFR table with any closed loop cells, you have to know that your VE tables aren't as important because once you're in closed loop your ECM is going to follow whatever the O2 sensors are telling it. But if you run all open loop like I do, your VEs are much more relevant and it's even more important that you have a safety factor of extra fuel to make sure that you never run lean. You can run quite rich without any negative side effects(except gas mileage) but you want to make sure you aren't running lean in any part of the map.

Take it as you will...my motor knocks a lot when I run VE tables that have been autotuned with the PV, even with an AFR table that errs on the side of rich. But when I take the autotuned results and manually manipulate my VEs, making sure I keep it on the rich side, my motor is much happier, my spark plugs look good and I have a good combination of power and fuel mileage.

 

A few things:

If you richen up too much, you will take the closed loop out of range and it will be open loop all the time. You need to keep the range the O2 sensors work in mind.

Also, if you see a random VE number between others, it just might be that you did not stay in that range long enough to get a good sample. Some bikes accelerate out of a range fast and no hits at that rpm is taken. Hard to get many hits in all the cells on the street.

You should see an auto tune session on a dyno.
Step testing hold each cell to get many many hits. The tune you get this way is really good.
Of course after a tune, always look at the VE tables to see any odd numbers and blend them into the rest.
A final check on a dyno to confirm good A/F ratios in closed loop, (14.4-14-6) and open loop (12.9-13.1) will assure a good tune.

 

Red dragons,

What combo of discs/end caps are you using?
I'm currently on 10 discs, open end. I'll be playing around with other combinations but I am happy with the curves and final numbers so far.

 

I'm currently happy with 8 discs, open end. I've tried a lot of different configurations and this one seems the best compromise of sound, and high and low end power.

One thing...open end in any config will cost you a little low end torque. I know they say open end is equal to 8-10 discs, and while that may technically be true in terms of sheer volume, it's not equivalent in performance. There is a slight gas expansion effect across the discs that aids in scavenging, and you don't get this effect with the open end. I easily notice an increase in torque when starting from a stop with 18 discs, closed end vs 8 discs open end. However, I feel like closed end lacks too much power up top, and I also very much prefer the sound with the open end.

Another thing I also found is that if you want to run closed end and dislike the sound, you can remove the fiberglass muffler packing and it will sound a bit louder and a lot better IMO. They say you can lose some power by doing this, but I noticed no difference at all, just FYI.

 

My PV2 From Jamie at FuelMoto will be here tomorrow. I actually read all 654 pages during the last week and think I'm ready to start pulling hairs with all the other newbies playing with this thing. This is going to be FUN!

 

Ok, I ran 3 AT runs and the last had only a 2% change except for 1 cell that I hadn't hit before at 12%. I stopped there to look at any Knock events in the Log file from a short test run after loading my final tune and hit a snag. I'm seeing what looks like knock events at operating temp occuring around 2200 to 3000 RPM both front and rear, (more in the front) but I'm not sure if I'm reading the log file correctly or where to reduce the suggested (from reading this forum) 3% timing at. Should I do it in Quick tune or in WinPV selecting the 2500 and 3000 RPM ranges?
Thanks...

 

Hi,
I would check spark plug gap as well, unless your timing at that point really high or abnormal I would change VE in that area first, ie raise VE
thanks

 

Think I figured out how to read the log file. It now looks like my Knock retard took care of the rear cylinder knock as it stopped knocking further on in the log file. My front is still getting 2.5 to 3 (what ever that means) between 2250 and 3000 in the 50, 60, and 70 KPA range. I pulled 3% in that area with WinPV and smoothed it manually a bit. Both front and rear as those cells were quite a bit higher than the surrounding cells. Rain tomorrow and cooler temps so I may not see anything till next summer.

 

Thanks Mirrmu, The timing was high, plugs checked good. VE is very linear so I don't want to play with that just yet