Power Vision Information Thread
Road Warrior
Joined: May 2013
Posts: 1,430
Likes: 55
From: Florida
Taken from the PV help file. Im gonna try this if I dont hear back from Jamie soon. my VE's are all good.
In Pro mode, you can tune fuel and spark simultaneously; however, Dynojet recommends to address fuel first, and then focus on spark. To do this, after you've completed tuning the fuel (via adjustments to your VE tables) and flashed the corrected tune file to your ECM, you can then start a new AutoTune session that's focused on spark corrections. In the settings area of AutoTune you can set Max VE Learn to 0 and Max Spark Learn to 10. This will disable AutoTune's ability to change fuel, but allow it to monitor, record, and eventually correct spark advance based on knock activity.
In Pro mode, you can tune fuel and spark simultaneously; however, Dynojet recommends to address fuel first, and then focus on spark. To do this, after you've completed tuning the fuel (via adjustments to your VE tables) and flashed the corrected tune file to your ECM, you can then start a new AutoTune session that's focused on spark corrections. In the settings area of AutoTune you can set Max VE Learn to 0 and Max Spark Learn to 10. This will disable AutoTune's ability to change fuel, but allow it to monitor, record, and eventually correct spark advance based on knock activity.
Last edited by Smokey Stover; Jun 19, 2013 at 09:26 PM. Reason: over pasted
Road Master
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 871
Likes: 7
From: Manchester, NH
delta...AT basic ( with narrow band sensors ) will adjust timing. yes it does retard the timing 4 deg. but you can change max spark learn to a value and it will adjust ( retard ) up to the max spark learn you enter. You are right it doesnt make sense but it will atempt to retard it if needed. The default setting is set to zero for max spark learn. setting this to zero basicly turns this function off.
Dynojet recomends not using spark learn function in AT basic, but they say you can use it with wide band sensors. This has always had me puzzled because i assumed that with AT pro it would also retard the timing during an auto tune run. But i dont know. maybe it doesnt because the A/F ratio is set in the 13 range.
Dynojet recomends not using spark learn function in AT basic, but they say you can use it with wide band sensors. This has always had me puzzled because i assumed that with AT pro it would also retard the timing during an auto tune run. But i dont know. maybe it doesnt because the A/F ratio is set in the 13 range.
The way I do it is just do a data run when the urge hits me; or, I see/hear some knock, just hit the datalog button and try to replicate the knock. Then run everything through log tuner and see what changes, then save. I can dial in my spark knock corrections quickly this way.
Cruiser
Joined: Apr 2013
Posts: 146
Likes: 0
From: Massachusetts
Last year when we were Beta testing this, it was suggested to advance your spark by 4* if you wanted to AT. Then after the changes were made to reduce it again by the 4* you added. It never really worked well with all the other parameters that are changed in the process. The old way with the Log Tuner always works and I feel more comfortable with it. Not sure about the wide band stuff.
The way I do it is just do a data run when the urge hits me; or, I see/hear some knock, just hit the datalog button and try to replicate the knock. Then run everything through log tuner and see what changes, then save. I can dial in my spark knock corrections quickly this way.
The way I do it is just do a data run when the urge hits me; or, I see/hear some knock, just hit the datalog button and try to replicate the knock. Then run everything through log tuner and see what changes, then save. I can dial in my spark knock corrections quickly this way.
Tourer
Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 401
Likes: 22
From: Lebanon, Pa
So once you get your VE tables right and want to start on timing how do you know what to do? add or remove timing and how much? Do you start by adding a degree or two across the board and look for knock events then take timing away where they occurred
Also curious as the the AFR tables some of you came up with and if you have multiple AFT tables you use
Looking at my Fuel Moto tune ver. the stock tune there were not a lot of changes to the AFR table or the timing tables
Also curious as the the AFR tables some of you came up with and if you have multiple AFT tables you use
Looking at my Fuel Moto tune ver. the stock tune there were not a lot of changes to the AFR table or the timing tables
Cruiser
Joined: Apr 2012
Posts: 194
Likes: 14
From: Florida
There are zeros in engine temp because it is not measured by the ECM. The remaining tables should be pretty much self explanatory. If for example you have a -4* at 176 degrees F and 70 MAP; then when those two settings are reached, 4* will be pulled from the main spark table front and rear. (IMHO)
If your bike does not ping during the cooler riding season, but develops ping during the summer months, try pulling more at the relevant causal temps. Use the datalogs to find the temps and maps where the ping occurs and adjust accordingly.
If your bike does not ping during the cooler riding season, but develops ping during the summer months, try pulling more at the relevant causal temps. Use the datalogs to find the temps and maps where the ping occurs and adjust accordingly.
The solution (based on input from FM) was to pull 3 degrees using Quicktune. Solved the problem for the rest of my trip. When I got home, I looked at the timing section of the tables using WinPV more closely, and found these heat related tables.
The ability to pull timing based on engine heat sounds like a great idea. But I'm not certain that the standard tables are doing enough. Before I start messing around with this, wondered if anyone else had explored and experimented.
Thanks for any input. The amount of info in this forum is awesome, and nearly overwhelming.
Road Warrior
Joined: May 2013
Posts: 1,430
Likes: 55
From: Florida
There are several good posts on spark timing with LT, by some very knowledgable members in this thread, staljim and wurktruk come to mind. I still cannot get ping/knock events to show in my logs, But I do get some when in logging in AT mode. also feel a buzzy vibration in footboards betweeen 1800-2400 RPM. Still waiting for FM to review my tune and log files,should be getting a reply soon.
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Road Warrior
Joined: May 2013
Posts: 1,430
Likes: 55
From: Florida
Update:
I just recieved a reasuring E-mail from Jamie at FM. It seems I just worry too much.
I have been looking over my logs and it seems most of my knocks while ATing were in the higher MAP/Kpa columns at lower RPM's, Trying to fill in all the cells in the upper right corner.Hell, I never ride like that, We all know the best way to gain 10 HP is to downshift. So I will try the quicktune approach to the vibration I feel but can't see in the logs. Then manually adjust the spark tables after settling on how much and where to reduce. Thanks for all your input.
Here's Jamies reply,
Hello, the AT and general logging are both reading back the same info off the data bus. If you have added timing and you are getting some spark knock you are going to need to go back the other way. You are not going to damage anything as long as you are not getting massive detonation and are forcibly running the motor under load, if the knock control is pulling timing within its limits that is going to be normal operation. On a well tuned bike is will be common to get some small knock events here and there, again as long as they are within what the system can control.
Thank you.........Jamie
I just recieved a reasuring E-mail from Jamie at FM. It seems I just worry too much.
I have been looking over my logs and it seems most of my knocks while ATing were in the higher MAP/Kpa columns at lower RPM's, Trying to fill in all the cells in the upper right corner.Hell, I never ride like that, We all know the best way to gain 10 HP is to downshift. So I will try the quicktune approach to the vibration I feel but can't see in the logs. Then manually adjust the spark tables after settling on how much and where to reduce. Thanks for all your input.
Here's Jamies reply,
Hello, the AT and general logging are both reading back the same info off the data bus. If you have added timing and you are getting some spark knock you are going to need to go back the other way. You are not going to damage anything as long as you are not getting massive detonation and are forcibly running the motor under load, if the knock control is pulling timing within its limits that is going to be normal operation. On a well tuned bike is will be common to get some small knock events here and there, again as long as they are within what the system can control.
Thank you.........Jamie
Road Warrior
Joined: May 2013
Posts: 1,430
Likes: 55
From: Florida
I was on the DJ website looking at QT manual, and saw another manual with something about locking/unlocking tunes and ECM, theres a code that you can enter to get files that they suggest sending to DJ. you may want to read or DL it. hopefully you'll understand it better than I. just tryin to help, GL
Found this also, In the future when I add cams, PR's,etc..and possible dyno time I will beware of this,
• ECM was previously tuned with TTS Mastertune o When an ECM is flashed with TTS MasterTune, it puts a proprietary lock in the ECM. You or your tuner must have saved the original backup (.mte file), that flashed back in the ECM with the TTS’s MasterTune.
o The Power Vision, Screamn’ Eagle’s Super Tuner, or even the Digital Tech dealer tool CAN NOT enter flash (read or write the calibration) on that particular ECM. That being said a guy needs to be careful when using a TTS device, because if you’re out on the road and need service, or diagnostic work you’ll need a laptop with TTS Mastetune, the flash dongle, and the original .mte backup file.
o If you don’t have the .mte backup file and the dongle, or access to any TTS dongle, you’ll need to replace the ECM with a new one or send the existing ECM to TTS to be unlocked!
• Aftermarket or Harley-Davidson genuine accessory speedometer / tachometer clusters. o These devices can interrupt the communication, or cause intermittent communication on the data-bus to the ECM
o Removing the fuse to the cluster usually resolves the problem
Found this also, In the future when I add cams, PR's,etc..and possible dyno time I will beware of this,
• ECM was previously tuned with TTS Mastertune o When an ECM is flashed with TTS MasterTune, it puts a proprietary lock in the ECM. You or your tuner must have saved the original backup (.mte file), that flashed back in the ECM with the TTS’s MasterTune.
o The Power Vision, Screamn’ Eagle’s Super Tuner, or even the Digital Tech dealer tool CAN NOT enter flash (read or write the calibration) on that particular ECM. That being said a guy needs to be careful when using a TTS device, because if you’re out on the road and need service, or diagnostic work you’ll need a laptop with TTS Mastetune, the flash dongle, and the original .mte backup file.
o If you don’t have the .mte backup file and the dongle, or access to any TTS dongle, you’ll need to replace the ECM with a new one or send the existing ECM to TTS to be unlocked!
• Aftermarket or Harley-Davidson genuine accessory speedometer / tachometer clusters. o These devices can interrupt the communication, or cause intermittent communication on the data-bus to the ECM
o Removing the fuse to the cluster usually resolves the problem
Last edited by Smokey Stover; Jun 20, 2013 at 02:54 PM. Reason: additonal info