Power Vision Information Thread
Extreme HDF Member
Joined: Aug 2012
Posts: 11,392
Likes: 184
From: Big ol Titties
So I tried to do another AT this evening, and I had the most unusual results.
The AT seemed to go normally, with the exception that the green map screen of cells was displaying in a different differently. I figured it must have somehow gotten put in a different mode, so I "clicked" through the modes and found the normal mode that shows the "hits".
So the rest of the At went well and I exported learned cells, and saved the tune to the PV. Brought up WinPV and did a compare from the previous tune and all of the cells I didn't hit, we're all showing 10% delta (this is normally zero for me previously)
The other thing I noticed immediately was that the displacement of the new tune showed 107.4ci. I'd love to have 107 but I don't!
Any input? looks like this AT was a wasted of good gas.
The AT seemed to go normally, with the exception that the green map screen of cells was displaying in a different differently. I figured it must have somehow gotten put in a different mode, so I "clicked" through the modes and found the normal mode that shows the "hits".
So the rest of the At went well and I exported learned cells, and saved the tune to the PV. Brought up WinPV and did a compare from the previous tune and all of the cells I didn't hit, we're all showing 10% delta (this is normally zero for me previously)
The other thing I noticed immediately was that the displacement of the new tune showed 107.4ci. I'd love to have 107 but I don't!
Any input? looks like this AT was a wasted of good gas.
Last edited by Uncle Chester; Aug 21, 2013 at 08:12 PM. Reason: Fat Fingers Small Keys
Stellar HDF Member
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 2,928
Likes: 117
From: Ashby, Ma
When you exported learned values did it tell you that one or more cells exceeded 127.5 and then ask you if you wanted to scale or cap? I'm thinking this is what happened and you hit scale so the PV scaled your motor size up to 107. If you didn't exceed 127.5 and get the scale or cap screen then something weird's going on.
Extreme HDF Member
Joined: Aug 2012
Posts: 11,392
Likes: 184
From: Big ol Titties
I ended up scaling mine up, now my 107 has a 122 tune in it. Started with a 113 tune from FM. I scaled up because I had over 8 cells that were maxed out at 127.5 what i did was after my AT run I hit the mode button until I get to the new ve screen. That way you can see if your maxed out cells are at 128 or higher at say 135.
Cruiser
Joined: Jul 2013
Posts: 124
Likes: 0
From: Tremonton, Utah
I believe that lambda values below 0.977 will automatically go to open loop. Though I don't know why anyone would use 0.976. I know the efficiency of the sensors on the AFR bikes that relied on Closed Loop Bias were greatly effected by how far away from the center value you went. Don't remember the numbers.
If anyone knows if the new and the old style sensors degrade the same way could they post. About all I do to check my sensors is datalog from time to time and check the O2 voltage (currently between 0.82 - 1.72) Not sure what this means but it shows that are switching on and off.
If anyone knows if the new and the old style sensors degrade the same way could they post. About all I do to check my sensors is datalog from time to time and check the O2 voltage (currently between 0.82 - 1.72) Not sure what this means but it shows that are switching on and off.
Thx for the input, JIM and Delta.
I can lower the numbers from .981 FM map Jamie sent with the tuner. He also had the closed loop switch off too. SO I will add the channel( o2 volt) and watch it as I lower the values in the Lambda tables. if I can get it down to 14.35 I would happy for a good Hot Summer closed loop tune.
THX
Gents
Oilsmoke
PS in the closed loop Lambda range tree in winpv 1.013 high and 9.76 low.
these values are safe in between them?
Last edited by Oilsmoke; Aug 22, 2013 at 07:49 AM. Reason: spelling
Road Master
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 871
Likes: 7
From: Manchester, NH
Well that is what I am looking for the richest Lambda setting I can run without pushing or going out of range of the o2's
Thx for the input, JIM and Delta.
I can lower the numbers from .981 FM map Jamie stent with the tuner. He also had the closed loop switch off too. SO I will add the channel( o2 volt) and watch it as I lower the values in the Lambda tables. if I can get it down to 14.35 I would happy for a good Hot Summer closed loop tune.
THX
Gents
Oilsmoke
Thx for the input, JIM and Delta.
I can lower the numbers from .981 FM map Jamie stent with the tuner. He also had the closed loop switch off too. SO I will add the channel( o2 volt) and watch it as I lower the values in the Lambda tables. if I can get it down to 14.35 I would happy for a good Hot Summer closed loop tune.
THX
Gents
Oilsmoke
The best thing I have done to get cooler running temps, in addition to tuning, is to install the fan system from wardspartswerks.
Stellar HDF Member
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 2,928
Likes: 117
From: Ashby, Ma
I ended up scaling mine up, now my 107 has a 122 tune in it. Started with a 113 tune from FM. I scaled up because I had over 8 cells that were maxed out at 127.5 what i did was after my AT run I hit the mode button until I get to the new ve screen. That way you can see if your maxed out cells are at 128 or higher at say 135.
A bit of info: As far as selecting scale or cap it really depends on what kind of corrections the VE model is requiring. By choosing scale it raises the displacement constant and lowers peak VE but normalizes the rest of the VE's to compensate, on the other hand cap will simply "cap" the peak VE at the 127.5 limit. The key to determining cap or scale is to look at the VE tables as not only how many cells are at or near the limit, any large swings in VE that should be blended or smoothed first, or if it is an anomaly such as a rogue cell or maybe a decell correction. You can view the VE tables and recommended corrections right on the PV when in AT mode under Mode before you export your learned values. Generally speaking I like to cap the first couple sessions and watch for specific trends, if necessary I the scale if needed. What can happen for example is if you scale a somewhat untuned map or say a combo that comes up real big on the cam it may scale excessively and the low load VE becomes abnormally low. Hope this info helps
__________________
Jamie Long / Fuel Moto USA
The USA's Leader V-Twin EFI & Performance www.fuelmotousa.com
Contact 920-423-3309
Email jamie@fuelmotousa.com
Jamie Long / Fuel Moto USA
The USA's Leader V-Twin EFI & Performance www.fuelmotousa.com
Contact 920-423-3309
Email jamie@fuelmotousa.com
Stellar HDF Member
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 2,928
Likes: 117
From: Ashby, Ma
A bit of info: As far as selecting scale or cap it really depends on what kind of corrections the VE model is requiring. By choosing scale it raises the displacement constant and lowers peak VE but normalizes the rest of the VE's to compensate, on the other hand cap will simply "cap" the peak VE at the 127.5 limit. The key to determining cap or scale is to look at the VE tables as not only how many cells are at or near the limit, any large swings in VE that should be blended or smoothed first, or if it is an anomaly such as a rogue cell or maybe a decell correction. You can view the VE tables and recommended corrections right on the PV when in AT mode under Mode before you export your learned values. Generally speaking I like to cap the first couple sessions and watch for specific trends, if necessary I the scale if needed. What can happen for example is if you scale a somewhat untuned map or say a combo that comes up real big on the cam it may scale excessively and the low load VE becomes abnormally low. Hope this info helps
...and keep smiling!
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Road Master
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 894
Likes: 4
From: Newberg OR
For completeness sake, what specific values would be considered abnormally low?
Cruiser
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 225
Likes: 6
I have been using LT to trim off a little bit of timing at a time and for the heck of it I checked the front and rear VE delta with the log tuner. There was a group of 7 cells near the center of the map that was .98-1 both front and rear. Should I bother to accept these while I am at it? Thanks.