Ignition/Tuner/ECM/Fuel Injection Need advice on ignition issues? Questions about a tuner? Have questions about a EFI calibration or Fuel Injection? Tips on Engine Diagnostics, how to get codes, and what they mean. Find your answers here.

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Old Apr 14, 2015 | 05:52 PM
  #7001  
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Hey all- Small accomplishment thanks to your help here. I just created me some bona-fide data log files, exported and viewed them. Three of them in a row! There is hope yet.
 
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Old Apr 14, 2015 | 08:17 PM
  #7002  
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LA _ Dog,

Thanks for the tip. In quick tune>>tweaks, which boxes should I check before adding 10% to decel? There is adaptive, knock control, close loop boxes.

I am using the stock sensors so the close loop should be checked. How about EITMS and autotune mode?
 

Last edited by OddJack; Apr 14, 2015 at 08:45 PM.
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Old Apr 14, 2015 | 08:22 PM
  #7003  
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Originally Posted by fuelmoto
Decel popping can happen for a number of reasons, and there are a number of tuning strategies to alleviate it. Lets say there are absolutely no exhaust or intake leaks and you are getting popping on decel, this can be caused by a lean or rich mixture and here are a couple of tuning strategies to help resolve this phenomenon primarily related to exhaust gas temp (EGT). The most common technique is to add fuel thru a combination of the AFR table, VE tables, and decel enleanment table; a slighly lean mixture will hyper ignite any hydrocarbons in the exhaust stream, by adding fuel you are lowering EGT and in many cases this will take care popping that is present. Note that because injector duty cycle is so small during decel it may take a pretty big change to see results, this is normal and what appears to be a big change in a tuning table is a small amount of fueling under decel. If richening the fuel does not resolve the popping we will try to remove fuel in the same table(s), this will simply put less ignitable elements in the exhaust, however many times the popping will get worse due to the raise in EGT. Another tuning parameter that can be used are the spark tables and closed throttle spark, adding timing will many times reduce decel popping as well. To make things more complicated many bikes use a decel fuel cutoff (DFC) where the ECM turns the injectors off under certain parameters under decel, when DFC is causing popping you need to work the various tables to tune what we call the "landing" when the injectors come back on, and also note that even when the injectors are shutting down it is still possible to get residual fuel causing popping.

In the end while an exhaust leak or tune issue can be the root cause by far the biggest issue and contributor to decel popping is exhaust and muffler design. This all varies by combination however large, open, enormous mufflers & baffles can/will lead to issues. They also "greatly" affect low/mid RPM performance and tunability, an effect of the loss of velocity. Hope this info helps
Thank you Jamie for taking the time and the in-depth explanation. I always thought richer fuel gives higher temp in the exhaust.
Following your line of reasoning:

The fuel that is unburned will take heat from the combustion products to
1. vaporize the unburned fuel
2. heat up the unburned fuel vapor to the combustion temperature
3. The products of combustion would include carbon monoxide instead of carbon dioxide.

The heat of combustion of carbon monoxide is less than that of carbon dioxide

Now it all makes more sense.
 
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Old Apr 14, 2015 | 10:17 PM
  #7004  
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I thought I would load my stock tune to the pv with the load copy of stock tune today. I was planning on opening it with WinPV, but when I hit load copy on the bike I got a notice that no stock tune exists. I hooked it up to the pc and used WinPV to send the stk file to my pv and it says file already exist do I want to overwrite it. I have done that with a yes and no, but still when on the bike it says no stock tune exists. I have the stk file on my pc. I even tried to return the bike to stock, but that didn't work either. I don't know what is wrong with this. I know I did it to the 08 way back there and now it is married to the 15 with a new license. Any ideas?
 
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Old Apr 14, 2015 | 11:20 PM
  #7005  
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Originally Posted by OddJack
LA _ Dog,

Thanks for the tip. In quick tune>>tweaks, which boxes should I check before adding 10% to decel? There is adaptive, knock control, close loop boxes.

I am using the stock sensors so the close loop should be checked. How about EITMS and autotune mode?
you can check all of the boxes in the Tweak tab, if EITMS is not checked then it's ok to leave that unchecked for now then read up on it later in the WinPV help section. Do not turn on AutoTune.
Go to the fuel tab, add the +10 to decel, then go to spark and add +3 to decel. save, done, ride and test. take a good ride so the bike gets fully warmed up.
 
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Old Apr 14, 2015 | 11:32 PM
  #7006  
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Originally Posted by LA_Dog
you can check all of the boxes in the Tweak tab, if EITMS is not checked then it's ok to leave that unchecked for now then read up on it later in the WinPV help section. Do not turn on AutoTune.
Go to the fuel tab, add the +10 to decel, then go to spark and add +3 to decel. save, done, ride and test. take a good ride so the bike gets fully warmed up.
Under tweaks tab, the knock box was not available, and there was no "continue" option to change the decel level.

I went under fuel tab and added 7% to decel. Rode the bike and after the temp reached 300 there was no pops, I will check on it tomorrow again.

Any idea why under tweaks there was no "continue" option? Maybe the auto tune was on, I have to check on that.
 
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Old Apr 14, 2015 | 11:52 PM
  #7007  
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Originally Posted by OddJack
Under tweaks tab, the knock box was not available, and there was no "continue" option to change the decel level.

I went under fuel tab and added 7% to decel. Rode the bike and after the temp reached 300 there was no pops, I will check on it tomorrow again.

Any idea why under tweaks there was no "continue" option? Maybe the auto tune was on, I have to check on that.
I don't think there are any continue options, you just make settings changes in the different tabs, then save. try going the full +10 on the decel fuel and also do +3 degrees on decel spark.
 
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Old Apr 14, 2015 | 11:58 PM
  #7008  
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BTW, OddJack- it makes sense that your bike will react differently when cold vs fully warmed up. The QT setting lets you see if these fast changes get you headed in the right direction, such as maybe needing to richen up the decel fuel or add a bit more advance to decel spark. If they do make a positive difference, then you can make granular adjustments within the tune file's VE, AFR and Spark tables (and other places) so you have the same positive results across all temps and riding variables. That's what I'm learning about this Delphi setup anyway - I don't know enough yet to speak more intelligently on it.

I got my best results so far on eliminating decel pop by richening up the Decel Enleanment table a bit, but I had some good help from a member here who also tweaked my VE, AFR and Spark tables. Those tweaks got me very close and richening up the DE table got me the rest of the way there. but I could not have gotten there without the most important parts set up correctly first, most importantly VE.
 

Last edited by LA_Dog; Apr 15, 2015 at 12:03 AM.
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Old Apr 15, 2015 | 12:24 AM
  #7009  
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LA Dog,

Thanks for the help so far. I am learning too and will experiment more tomorrow.
 
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Old Apr 15, 2015 | 12:29 AM
  #7010  
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Originally Posted by LA_Dog
I don't think there are any continue options, you just make settings changes in the different tabs, then save. try going the full +10 on the decel fuel and also do +3 degrees on decel spark.
Well, I guess PV needs to update their manual then:


 
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