Power Vision Information Thread
Cruiser
Joined: Jul 2015
Posts: 101
Likes: 2
From: Columbus, Ohio, USA
I was reading about CDE, and the effect it has on your VE tables. Whenever you have a group of cells that are you hitting that 127 cap, to lower your CDE a little at a time in that particular range, and it should fix that VE issue. But I havent done that yet. I did do a number of AT runs this weekend at all different types of riding, and there are a few things I notice right away. First, I limited the AT to 30KPA and up, but for whatever reason, the nice idle sound (lobing sound) that I had before is gone. So I will be working on trying to get that back. However, my fuel eco improved quite a bit just by AT'ing the rest of the map! Just using the instant eco, it has improved about 10-12mpg! I can feel the engine a bit smoother on the highway. And although I can feel a slight loss in that SOP power at bottom-to-middle power, it still pulls much better than stock. I have NO ping, and overall it runs great. I am wondering if I could pull just a bit more out of it, by moving the timing...? I can see my map tightening up in MLV, but I dont really know what to change after looking at the MLP plot anyway..LOL!
Thanks
Glen
Thanks
Glen
Outstanding HDF Member
Joined: Jun 2014
Posts: 3,185
Likes: 189
From: 90210
Adjusting CDE only has a significant effect below 60kpa. If your 127 VE cell numbers are above 60kpa it's not going to do much. Could be your idle is not longer as lopey because it is no longer running overly rich in the idle area VEs. I can manually richen mine to like 11.5-12 AFR and it gets real lopey. but will equal poor economy. If you want a reasonably priced upgrade to off the line and midrange pull, shorten the belt pulley ratio with a set of 30/68 or 30/70 belt pulleys. the difference SOTP will be very significant without loss of mpg. no amount of tuning will overcome the stock overly tall secondary drive ratio. been down that road 
And yes timing can be optimized in the off the line areas, 70kpa-up and 750-2750rpm approximately. then you can further tune the higher rpm / higher map 70kpa-up 2750-up. log data and MLV can help with that. FM's tune maps have that area bumped up a bit, stock maps and HD stage1 maps are overly tame in that area on purpose to help prevent engine damage if the motor is lugged.
And yes timing can be optimized in the off the line areas, 70kpa-up and 750-2750rpm approximately. then you can further tune the higher rpm / higher map 70kpa-up 2750-up. log data and MLV can help with that. FM's tune maps have that area bumped up a bit, stock maps and HD stage1 maps are overly tame in that area on purpose to help prevent engine damage if the motor is lugged.
Last edited by LA_Dog; May 9, 2016 at 08:56 AM.
Cruiser
Joined: Jul 2015
Posts: 101
Likes: 2
From: Columbus, Ohio, USA
Adjusting CDE only has a significant effect below 60kpa. If your 127 VE cell numbers are above 60kpa it's not going to do much. Could be your idle is not longer as lopey because it is no longer running overly rich in the idle area VEs. I can manually richen mine to like 11.5-12 AFR and it gets real lopey. but will equal poor economy. If you want a reasonably priced upgrade to off the line and midrange pull, shorten the belt pulley ratio with a set of 30/68 or 30/70 belt pulleys. the difference SOTP will be very significant without loss of mpg. no amount of tuning will overcome the stock overly tall secondary drive ratio. been down that road
Thanks
Glen
Outstanding HDF Member
Joined: Jun 2014
Posts: 3,185
Likes: 189
From: 90210
Cool- you will be *very* happy with the pulley upgrade. not sure what bike you have.
once you get your VEs dialed in and you see 3% or less of change then you can richen up fuel in the AFR table. for a quick down and dirty test you can set the entire map to 13.1 from 80kpa and down, and 80kpa and up set it to 12.8. that is the "performance" side of AFR ratios. give it a ride, won't hurt anything, see if your power picks up. if it does then you know maybe you are a bit lean in some areas. put your old AFR map back and richen up some areas till it feels better where you ride.
I only set the 30-70kpa and 2500-3500rpm area of my AFR table to 14.0. everything else is 13.2 to 12.8. I prefer more performance and lower engine ET's to economy- but I'm mostly all in-town riding and rarely if ever any freeway. what's cool though is you can build a "town / performance" richer tune and another "freeway / mpg" tune file, switch between them as needed.
once you get your VEs dialed in and you see 3% or less of change then you can richen up fuel in the AFR table. for a quick down and dirty test you can set the entire map to 13.1 from 80kpa and down, and 80kpa and up set it to 12.8. that is the "performance" side of AFR ratios. give it a ride, won't hurt anything, see if your power picks up. if it does then you know maybe you are a bit lean in some areas. put your old AFR map back and richen up some areas till it feels better where you ride.
I only set the 30-70kpa and 2500-3500rpm area of my AFR table to 14.0. everything else is 13.2 to 12.8. I prefer more performance and lower engine ET's to economy- but I'm mostly all in-town riding and rarely if ever any freeway. what's cool though is you can build a "town / performance" richer tune and another "freeway / mpg" tune file, switch between them as needed.
Cruiser
Joined: Jul 2015
Posts: 101
Likes: 2
From: Columbus, Ohio, USA
Cool- you will be *very* happy with the pulley upgrade. not sure what bike you have.
once you get your VEs dialed in and you see 3% or less of change then you can richen up fuel in the AFR table. for a quick down and dirty test you can set the entire map to 13.1 from 80kpa and down, and 80kpa and up set it to 12.8. that is the "performance" side of AFR ratios. give it a ride, won't hurt anything, see if your power picks up. if it does then you know maybe you are a bit lean in some areas. put your old AFR map back and richen up some areas till it feels better where you ride.
I only set the 30-70kpa and 2500-3500rpm area of my AFR table to 14.0. everything else is 13.2 to 12.8. I prefer more performance and lower engine ET's to economy- but I'm mostly all in-town riding and rarely if ever any freeway. what's cool though is you can build a "town / performance" richer tune and another "freeway / mpg" tune file, switch between them as needed.
once you get your VEs dialed in and you see 3% or less of change then you can richen up fuel in the AFR table. for a quick down and dirty test you can set the entire map to 13.1 from 80kpa and down, and 80kpa and up set it to 12.8. that is the "performance" side of AFR ratios. give it a ride, won't hurt anything, see if your power picks up. if it does then you know maybe you are a bit lean in some areas. put your old AFR map back and richen up some areas till it feels better where you ride.
I only set the 30-70kpa and 2500-3500rpm area of my AFR table to 14.0. everything else is 13.2 to 12.8. I prefer more performance and lower engine ET's to economy- but I'm mostly all in-town riding and rarely if ever any freeway. what's cool though is you can build a "town / performance" richer tune and another "freeway / mpg" tune file, switch between them as needed.
Glen
Extreme HDF Member
Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 14,670
Likes: 139
From: East of the Sun, West of the Moon
talk to whittlebeast.. he's the expert on MLV
Road Warrior
Joined: Jun 2010
Posts: 1,368
Likes: 27
From: Australia
i purchased MLVHD and after some initial problems it works and is great for viewing the logs,
from reading here and HTT it looks like MyTune would be a better software to buy
from reading here and HTT it looks like MyTune would be a better software to buy
HD Forum Stories
The Best of Harley-Davidson for Lifelong Riders
7 Times Harley-Davidson Chucked Tradition Out the Window
Verdad Gallardo
7 Surprising Harley-Davidson Products that Are Not Motorcycles
Verdad Gallardo
8 Best Harley-Davidson Motorcycles Ever
Pouria Savadkouei
10 Worst Harley-Davidson Motorcycles Ever
Pouria Savadkouei
Killer Custom's Jail Break Is The Breakout That Refused to Blend In
Verdad Gallardo
Crazy Bunderbike Build Looks Amazing, But Is It Impossible to Ride?
Verdad Gallardo
Harley-Davidson Reveals Super Cool Cafe Racer Concept
Verdad Gallardo
Engraved Rebellion: Inside Bundnerbike's Glam Rock II
Verdad Gallardo
10 Motorcycles You Should Never Buy
Joe Kucinski
Extreme HDF Member
Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 14,670
Likes: 139
From: East of the Sun, West of the Moon
2 totally different beasts.. I certainly favor My Tune over anything else when tuning for verification of what my VEs are doing and I play with it with timing as well, but I also own MLVHD and it's a beast of an app especially for logging and analyzing those troublesome bikes. My Tune doesn't do much in the way of analytic functions at all.