Power Vision Information Thread
Cruiser
Joined: Jul 2015
Posts: 101
Likes: 2
From: Columbus, Ohio, USA
I would not say that. Based on the MLV screen in post 8541, it appears that your VEs are not dialed in, which has a negative impact on everything else.
After your AutoTune sessions, are you exporting learned values and then flashing that tune to the ECM? If not you aren't changing anything.
After your AutoTune sessions, are you exporting learned values and then flashing that tune to the ECM? If not you aren't changing anything.
new" tune.. and then autotuning that.. rinse and repeat...I have ran more than 8 AT runs...and the VE's change at every run, the last time I ran one it was 3% change. I can keep running AT's if you think I still need to, but I would think 8 times would get it...no? And if the VE's are off THAT much, wouldnt the DC vs MAPxRPM image be fuzzier? AS I understand from multiple posts, your VE's are not ever going to be perfect ever due to environmental influences...But if you think I should continue ATing.. then by all means...
Glen
Road Master
Joined: Aug 2014
Posts: 1,035
Likes: 39
From: Olive & Oak
Yes I am exporting and flashing that
new" tune.. and then autotuning that.. rinse and repeat...I have ran more than 8 AT runs...and the VE's change at every run, the last time I ran one it was 3% change. I can keep running AT's if you think I still need to, but I would think 8 times would get it...no? And if the VE's are off THAT much, wouldnt the DC vs MAPxRPM image be fuzzier? AS I understand from multiple posts, your VE's are not ever going to be perfect ever due to environmental influences...But if you think I should continue ATing.. then by all means...
Glen
new" tune.. and then autotuning that.. rinse and repeat...I have ran more than 8 AT runs...and the VE's change at every run, the last time I ran one it was 3% change. I can keep running AT's if you think I still need to, but I would think 8 times would get it...no? And if the VE's are off THAT much, wouldnt the DC vs MAPxRPM image be fuzzier? AS I understand from multiple posts, your VE's are not ever going to be perfect ever due to environmental influences...But if you think I should continue ATing.. then by all means...
Glen
Hard to tell without the log. I can tell you what I do. If you look at the white circle, in the image below, the VE Front is 102.5 and the VE New Front 100.5. Going straight up from there the VE Front is 102.5 and the VE New Front is 107.
I try and get this as close as possible in the RPM range that I ride in most of the time (2200 - 4200).
You can also look at it in Log Viewer mode and see if the large deltas are on shift changes.
Tourer
Joined: Apr 2012
Posts: 482
Likes: 30
From: Michigan/Florida
VE and VE New have nothing to do with whether you are running in closed or open loop.
Yes there will always be corrections between VE and VE new due to changing atmospheric conditions. If atmospheric conditions remain relativity constant then you should be able to correct VE changes to less than 5% with relative ease.
Yes there will always be corrections between VE and VE new due to changing atmospheric conditions. If atmospheric conditions remain relativity constant then you should be able to correct VE changes to less than 5% with relative ease.
Last edited by scooterbum46; May 17, 2016 at 05:48 PM.
Road Master
Joined: Aug 2014
Posts: 1,035
Likes: 39
From: Olive & Oak
My misunderstanding - I was working on the understanding that "VE New = VE * CLI * AFF" , and also the assumption that running conditions are NEVER exactly identical (see the OP's statement that he had to shut off one trace to seethe other..). My statement was based on the belief that you aren't getting valid CLI information if the bike is not in closed loop. (shrug)
You are correct that "VE New = VE * CLI * AFF".
My response was to the comment "If your VE and VE New are exactly the same then I'd question if you are actually running in closed loop". Even in an open loop situation, narrow band O2 sensors, the log will still show VE New.
Intermediate
Joined: Aug 2015
Posts: 45
Likes: 0
From: CHAMPAIGN, IL
New to power vision tuning
I have a 2007 fxd with a big sucker intake and bassani 13122j pipes. Dj suggested either the bub 7 2-1 or d&d fat cat tune as a base. From what I can gather from this thread I should run auto tune, making as many squares red as I can, twice and save with scaling. Then every at after that save as capped. Once change is less than 5% I'm done with at basic. Then I can dial in afr to find what suits me best. Mostly in town riding so probably 13.8 in cruise/idle area. I do have an oil cooler and run belray full syn so may be able to get away with a 14.2 afr. I'm bouncing this off you guys to make sure I understand it all. If I missed anything let me know. 2 questions.
1: of the two maps suggested by dj the d&d has higher ve's. Which one should I start with? Maybe run both in at and see which one jives better with the new ve's?
2: should I save both scaled and capped after 2 at runs and if I have more than a few maxed cells in the capped tune should I continue to use the scaled?
Thanks in advance
Ps... Seems like Im missing out on the fm full service treatment but I work at a metric shop and get ridiculous prices from my drag specialties rep. So thanks for any help.
1: of the two maps suggested by dj the d&d has higher ve's. Which one should I start with? Maybe run both in at and see which one jives better with the new ve's?
2: should I save both scaled and capped after 2 at runs and if I have more than a few maxed cells in the capped tune should I continue to use the scaled?
Thanks in advance
Ps... Seems like Im missing out on the fm full service treatment but I work at a metric shop and get ridiculous prices from my drag specialties rep. So thanks for any help.
Road Warrior
Joined: Jul 2012
Posts: 1,566
Likes: 55
From: Londonderry, NH
I have a 2007 fxd with a big sucker intake and bassani 13122j pipes. Dj suggested either the bub 7 2-1 or d&d fat cat tune as a base. From what I can gather from this thread I should run auto tune, making as many squares red as I can, twice and save with scaling. Then every at after that save as capped. Once change is less than 5% I'm done with at basic. Then I can dial in afr to find what suits me best. Mostly in town riding so probably 13.8 in cruise/idle area. I do have an oil cooler and run belray full syn so may be able to get away with a 14.2 afr. I'm bouncing this off you guys to make sure I understand it all. If I missed anything let me know. 2 questions.
1: of the two maps suggested by dj the d&d has higher ve's. Which one should I start with? Maybe run both in at and see which one jives better with the new ve's?
2: should I save both scaled and capped after 2 at runs and if I have more than a few maxed cells in the capped tune should I continue to use the scaled?
Thanks in advance
Ps... Seems like Im missing out on the fm full service treatment but I work at a metric shop and get ridiculous prices from my drag specialties rep. So thanks for any help.
1: of the two maps suggested by dj the d&d has higher ve's. Which one should I start with? Maybe run both in at and see which one jives better with the new ve's?
2: should I save both scaled and capped after 2 at runs and if I have more than a few maxed cells in the capped tune should I continue to use the scaled?
Thanks in advance
Ps... Seems like Im missing out on the fm full service treatment but I work at a metric shop and get ridiculous prices from my drag specialties rep. So thanks for any help.
1. I wouldn't worry about which map has higher VE's. Autotune will adjust your VE's. AFR is more important.
2. Start by capping your at's if required. Look at the tables and determine if you have more than a few cells that are slightly over. If you have a number of cells that are significantly over 127.5 consider scaling the next run.
Intermediate
Joined: Aug 2015
Posts: 45
Likes: 0
From: CHAMPAIGN, IL
1. I wouldn't worry about which map has higher VE's. Autotune will adjust your VE's. AFR is more important.
2. Start by capping your at's if required. Look at the tables and determine if you have more than a few cells that are slightly over. If you have a number of cells that are significantly over 127.5 consider scaling the next run.
2. Start by capping your at's if required. Look at the tables and determine if you have more than a few cells that are slightly over. If you have a number of cells that are significantly over 127.5 consider scaling the next run.
I was just thinking I'd want something close so if for some odd reason I get into a cell I haven't hit in at I won't be too far off. I'll just do an initial at with the lower of the two and see where I land.
So I'll just save both ways for every at session until I get change % and max cells to a minimum.
My Ocd ruins me sometimes...
I wouldn't run it in open loop when you're done with your AT, you have o2 sensors why not take advantage of them. IMO 13.8 is too rich for cruising.
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Cruiser
Joined: Jul 2015
Posts: 101
Likes: 2
From: Columbus, Ohio, USA
Glen
Cruiser
Joined: Jul 2015
Posts: 101
Likes: 2
From: Columbus, Ohio, USA
So, I have noticed that during my AT runs, the rear VE table is MUCH higher than the front...20-30 points higher in many places. This got me to thinking...The other day I released the rear bracket on the muffler, under the saddlebag, and the pipe and muffler rotated to the ground...I didnt think about it at the time. But I am wondering if the AT is wanting to richen up the rear so much because I have an exhaust leak at that connector? I dont hear anything, or see any soot or smoke, but could it be pulling air with reversion and leaning that rear cylinder out? My guess is yes.....
Thanks
Glen
Thanks
Glen