Power Vision Information Thread
Road Master
Joined: May 2012
Posts: 773
Likes: 124
From: Between purgatory and retirement
Ok fellas I have a nagging issue. The bike runs great but hot starts have a hiccup. Starts super smooth cold but when I Park, run in to grab a soda or something quick, come back out and it's crank crank crank - hiccup - crank and fire. It sounds terrible. Is there a cranking fuel or warm up fuel adjustment to help with this?
There is a cranking fuel adjustment, but if you have a stock 96 with no compression releases, it won't help.
Some try to hit the starter as soon as they turn on the fuel pump, others say to tap the starter once quick before trying to start it. I got fed up with it and had my heads machined for ACRs.
But beware, once you remove your heads to have them machined, you will see how easy it is to pull those jugs to bump the cubic inches!
Tourer
Joined: Apr 2012
Posts: 482
Likes: 30
From: Michigan/Florida
Here is a plot showing where the bike is operating in closed loop. Red dots indicate closed loop. Blue is open loop. The big mass of dots indicated where this rider spends most of his riding time.
http://www.nbs-stl.com/HarleyTuning/...d%20Tuning.png
On the left is Map Based tuning and on the right is what TPS based tuning would look like.
This rider spends most of his riding below about 2500 RPM and below 12 pct throttle and below about 60 KPA. Guess where his tuner should spend most of his effort tuning this bike based on how this rider uses his bike.
This rider rides his bike very different. In this shot, color indicates Hits.
http://www.nbs-stl.com/HarleyTuning/...nge%20Hits.png
Have fun tuning
Andy
http://www.nbs-stl.com/HarleyTuning/...d%20Tuning.png
On the left is Map Based tuning and on the right is what TPS based tuning would look like.
This rider spends most of his riding below about 2500 RPM and below 12 pct throttle and below about 60 KPA. Guess where his tuner should spend most of his effort tuning this bike based on how this rider uses his bike.
This rider rides his bike very different. In this shot, color indicates Hits.
http://www.nbs-stl.com/HarleyTuning/...nge%20Hits.png
Have fun tuning
Andy
Ultimate HDF Member
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 5,926
Likes: 138
From: NE Ohio
Cranking fuel doesn't have any thing to do with engine size or whether or not it has compression releases. If there is to little or to much fuel in that temperature area of the cranking fuel table the engine is being started in, adding or subtraction will certainly help.
Road Warrior
Joined: May 2013
Posts: 1,430
Likes: 55
From: Florida
Andy - in the first example where are you getting the closed loop signal? I've got a list of 66 offered signals from my PV, none of qhich are specifically Closed or Open Loop. I;m guessing you must be deriving the Closed Loop condition from some of the available signals - what are they and what are the assumptions, if it's a formula derived signal?
Open loop is any AFR below that range. I don't think there is a log channel for CLLR.
Look at your AFR table in WinPV and the Closed loop areas will be bolder.
Road Master
Joined: May 2012
Posts: 773
Likes: 124
From: Between purgatory and retirement
Cranking fuel doesn't have any thing to do with engine size or whether or not it has compression releases. If there is to little or to much fuel in that temperature area of the cranking fuel table the engine is being started in, adding or subtraction will certainly help.
I also said adjusting that table won't help with the problem he described.
So how much fuel would you remove from that table to get a motor that is locked up with pressure in the cylinder and extreme heat to get it to start properly?
Tourer
Joined: Apr 2012
Posts: 482
Likes: 30
From: Michigan/Florida
Thanks - I was hoping that there was a clear "I'm in open loop" from the ECM, rather than having to create a filter that changes every time the AFR table is changed.. Ah well....
Novice
Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 23
Likes: 0
AFR Values
Nice thread.
I just got finished installing set of V&H power duals, monster round mufflers and a fuel moto hi-flow cleaner with the power vision tuner on my 2015 Ultra limited. Flashed the map supplied with the power vision from fuel moto and bike seems to be running great with no popping on decel and good performance on acceleration. In looking at all the options available to monitor on the PV I notice the air fuel ratio is only 11.2 on both cylinders at idle and at cruising only increase to 11.7-11.8. I remember with tuning cars you were always looking to achieve 14.7 AFR. So my question is are these ratio values normal for newer bikes. Also I hear a slight noise from the cleaner area during acceleration like a slight rumble. Plan on calling tech at fuel-moto on Monday but thought maybe someone might have same setup and be able to offer feedback. Thanks
I just got finished installing set of V&H power duals, monster round mufflers and a fuel moto hi-flow cleaner with the power vision tuner on my 2015 Ultra limited. Flashed the map supplied with the power vision from fuel moto and bike seems to be running great with no popping on decel and good performance on acceleration. In looking at all the options available to monitor on the PV I notice the air fuel ratio is only 11.2 on both cylinders at idle and at cruising only increase to 11.7-11.8. I remember with tuning cars you were always looking to achieve 14.7 AFR. So my question is are these ratio values normal for newer bikes. Also I hear a slight noise from the cleaner area during acceleration like a slight rumble. Plan on calling tech at fuel-moto on Monday but thought maybe someone might have same setup and be able to offer feedback. Thanks
Ultimate HDF Member
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 5,926
Likes: 138
From: NE Ohio
Ok fellas I have a nagging issue. The bike runs great but hot starts have a hiccup. Starts super smooth cold but when I Park, run in to grab a soda or something quick, come back out and it's crank crank crank - hiccup - crank and fire. It sounds terrible. Is there a cranking fuel or warm up fuel adjustment to help with this?
Didn't say it did. What I said was there is a cranking fuel table.
I also said adjusting that table won't help with the problem he described.
So how much fuel would you remove from that table to get a motor that is locked up with pressure in the cylinder and extreme heat to get it to start properly?
I also said adjusting that table won't help with the problem he described.
So how much fuel would you remove from that table to get a motor that is locked up with pressure in the cylinder and extreme heat to get it to start properly?
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Road Master
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 1,177
Likes: 23
Andy - in the first example where are you getting the closed loop signal? I've got a list of 66 offered signals from my PV, none of qhich are specifically Closed or Open Loop. I;m guessing you must be deriving the Closed Loop condition from some of the available signals - what are they and what are the assumptions, if it's a formula derived signal?
Under (Calculated Field) (Custom Field) (Add Custom Field)
Create a name for the field and then define that new custom field as
[Front AFF]*[Front CLI]=10000?1.33:0
Set the Color range by going to (Calculated Field) (Fixed Field Min and Max) (Add Fixed Field Min and Max) and set the range form a minimum of 0 and set the Maximum to 2.
Do the same for the rear and you are good to go.
Andy
Last edited by whittlebeast; May 21, 2016 at 06:16 PM.
Road Warrior
Joined: May 2013
Posts: 1,430
Likes: 55
From: Florida
Nice thread.
I just got finished installing set of V&H power duals, monster round mufflers and a fuel moto hi-flow cleaner with the power vision tuner on my 2015 Ultra limited. Flashed the map supplied with the power vision from fuel moto and bike seems to be running great with no popping on decel and good performance on acceleration. In looking at all the options available to monitor on the PV I notice the air fuel ratio is only 11.2 on both cylinders at idle and at cruising only increase to 11.7-11.8. I remember with tuning cars you were always looking to achieve 14.7 AFR. So my question is are these ratio values normal for newer bikes. Also I hear a slight noise from the cleaner area during acceleration like a slight rumble. Plan on calling tech at fuel-moto on Monday but thought maybe someone might have same setup and be able to offer feedback. Thanks
I just got finished installing set of V&H power duals, monster round mufflers and a fuel moto hi-flow cleaner with the power vision tuner on my 2015 Ultra limited. Flashed the map supplied with the power vision from fuel moto and bike seems to be running great with no popping on decel and good performance on acceleration. In looking at all the options available to monitor on the PV I notice the air fuel ratio is only 11.2 on both cylinders at idle and at cruising only increase to 11.7-11.8. I remember with tuning cars you were always looking to achieve 14.7 AFR. So my question is are these ratio values normal for newer bikes. Also I hear a slight noise from the cleaner area during acceleration like a slight rumble. Plan on calling tech at fuel-moto on Monday but thought maybe someone might have same setup and be able to offer feedback. Thanks
eggs, You should get familar with and look at the target AFR table in the WinPV software for the PV. The value you see when looking at gauges while running/riding is +/- whatever corrections/changes the system is doing due to all the other variables in all the other tables/settings.Something don't seem right though 11.2 is pretty rich and you can probably smell the fuel coming out the exhaust.You can download tune files from DynoJet's site to compare. Most stage 1 tunes are all about the same anyway. Find one closest to your mods and load both into WinPV and Compare Tunes.That would be a good start until Monday.
Here's a link to tunes you can compare or even flash with.
http://www.dynojet.com/powervision/p...3a&AEngS=103ci
Last edited by Smokey Stover; May 22, 2016 at 07:58 AM. Reason: link