Power Vision Information Thread
Tourer
Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 403
Likes: 14
From: Tennessee
See if this link doesn't answer some of your questions.
Power Vision Tuning Procedure w/Stock O2 Sensors
Power Vision Tuning Procedure w/Stock O2 Sensors
Stage I
Joined: Jul 2014
Posts: 1
Likes: 0
From: Oregon
I have a 2013 RG that no matter what I have done I still get knock count on my front cylinder. I have retarded the timing in those "troubled" cells 20 degrees or more. I sill get (in 6th gear) knock count in front cylinder. My log files ALWAYS show the same trouble cells. This always seems to happen over 220 degrees on Engine temp. Below that it I haven't seen any knock.
The fuel map has been Auto tuned more times than I can count.
MAP Kpa is 60-90 Range
RMP 2700-3100
Engine Temp 220+
What I have tried.
*Auto tune, Auto tune, Auto tune.
*Retarded cells in Spark Advance (Front Cyl) table in troubled cells (20 degrees or more)
*Set VE table Front Cyl manually by bumping those same cells
*Increased Acceleration Enrichment by 30% from 234-320 Degrees
I would think that if it were a timing thing I would have had a huge difference in the number of knocks prior to retarded timing in the troubled cells.. The fact is that the knock count really hasn't changed much with all of the timing adjustments.
Mods to the bike have been gutted CAT and DNA megaphone slip-ons. AF is stock. Mobile 1 oil and redline in the trans.
I am baffled and lost.
Attached is my tune and my log file. Any help would be great!
The fuel map has been Auto tuned more times than I can count.
MAP Kpa is 60-90 Range
RMP 2700-3100
Engine Temp 220+
What I have tried.
*Auto tune, Auto tune, Auto tune.
*Retarded cells in Spark Advance (Front Cyl) table in troubled cells (20 degrees or more)
*Set VE table Front Cyl manually by bumping those same cells
*Increased Acceleration Enrichment by 30% from 234-320 Degrees
I would think that if it were a timing thing I would have had a huge difference in the number of knocks prior to retarded timing in the troubled cells.. The fact is that the knock count really hasn't changed much with all of the timing adjustments.
Mods to the bike have been gutted CAT and DNA megaphone slip-ons. AF is stock. Mobile 1 oil and redline in the trans.
I am baffled and lost.
Attached is my tune and my log file. Any help would be great!
Novice
Joined: May 2014
Posts: 15
Likes: 0
From: Ft. Worth, TX.
spark count in log tuner
Got my power vision a few weeks ago and have been reading this thread since before then. I recently did some mods to my 2012 RKC. Fuel Moto 2/1/2 head pipe, Wood 222 cams, Rush mufflers and S&S stealth a/c.
Got my VE's dialed in less than 5 percent and am trying to monitor for spark knock in log tuner. My problem is when data logging, spark hit count shows all zeroes. I remember reading some people having this issue after updating software and dynaulv posted on page 549 using notepad to change what log tuner expects to find in the pvv file.
I've looked at notepad and my VE shows"'VE (MAP based/Front Cyl)" and the same on the rear cylinder.
My question is, do I need to use notepad to change my pvv file to "'VE (Front Cyl)" and do the same thing for the rear cylinder as well?
Should changing this then show spark hit count in log tuner?
Got my VE's dialed in less than 5 percent and am trying to monitor for spark knock in log tuner. My problem is when data logging, spark hit count shows all zeroes. I remember reading some people having this issue after updating software and dynaulv posted on page 549 using notepad to change what log tuner expects to find in the pvv file.
I've looked at notepad and my VE shows"'VE (MAP based/Front Cyl)" and the same on the rear cylinder.
My question is, do I need to use notepad to change my pvv file to "'VE (Front Cyl)" and do the same thing for the rear cylinder as well?
Should changing this then show spark hit count in log tuner?
Last edited by jst73; Jul 7, 2014 at 09:54 PM.
Advanced
Joined: Oct 2013
Posts: 60
Likes: 2
From: Nortonville, ND
I have a 2014 Breakout, and put the PV on it this spring. Have a pretty good map built, and have been playing with the "gauges" layout, and have a question. I would like to display the gear I'm in on the PV, but when I select this function, it is always blank, like it is not receiving the data, just for the "Gear" box. Anyone else encounter this or know of a fix?
Novice
Joined: Jan 2013
Posts: 15
Likes: 1
From: Utah
fcheshir,
Sounds like you the "phantom" knocks that some get with the PV. Retarding 20 degrees is A LOT!. If that is not taking care of the problem, I would say that is not the problem if there is even a problem. When retarding the timing that much you should be able to feel a loss in power 'sluggish'? One other thing to think about, you should actually be retarding at about 28deg. because I think when the ECU senses a knock it will retard automatically and this is in addition to the 20 you have put in there. (I am not for sure on the 8deg. but I know it retards upon knock events)I have down loaded a basic tune from the Dynojet site and have the timing tables back where they were, Since I have auto tuned 4 times. Modifying the new auto tune each time.
The concerning part is the it happens at a certain temperature. Which fits the real knock profile.
1. Can you actually hear it knocking? I can not hear it unless the engine gets extremely hot then it pings like crazy. But with the original Knock count, no I can not hear it. (highway speeds, normal temps) It sounds like ball bearings in the cylinder boars, or like plates breaking, there is no mistake if it is audible.
2. Have you checked your plugs? I know many on here will tell you, you can't tell anything with plugs on these new technology motors. I would beg to differ. Your plugs should be nice and "marshmellow'ie" and or new looking. Do the insulators have little silver ***** on them, (almost likes like little flakes of sand, sign of true knocking, the ***** are aluminium from the combustion chamber). I had another member mention plugs I will be pulling mine tomorrow to take a look. This is looking more and more like the culprit.
If your plugs are pretty, and you don't actually hear any knocking physically, you may not have issues at all, or may be a bad gas issue. Have you tried getting some "white" pump gas, or even some fresh gas from a Racing outlet?
I don't think this is a fuel problem just for the simple fact I can't get bad gas at every single gas station I go to. I can understand this being the issue if this was a once in a while occurrence
I had the same issue as you last year... (not to freak you out) but my issue was a real one, but there were many more indicators that things were not right.
Once my temps got to 235 I would get knocking events. If the temps got over 280 the knocking was so bad I thought the bike was going to come part.Mine rattles like crazy when the temps get this high. 280+ The signs I had were I had a black plug that would not clean up (it was the reason that I got the PV in the first place).. When I would run a tuning session, the rear cylinder would always change on the tune (I use the log tuner not auto)... So basically I would run a log session, log tuner would make changes, run another log session and log tuner would change it back to where it was before. Very frustrating and confusing. I tried everything, retard on timing per heat table, leaned out, richened it up, etc. etc.
Turned out my issue was with a bad rebuild. The rear cylinder was fitted with wrong size of oil sweeper rings. This last winter I pulled the whole thing apart and hand delivered everything to Baisleys (I am in the Portland area) where Ryan, Dan and I spent an hour looking at everything trying to figure out what the F was wrong. Dan finally noticed that the sweeper rings were the wrong size. The fix was turning the jugs 10over, new pistons,,,, the correct rings etc. NOTE the guys at Baisleys are top notch people and know there sheet. New rebuilt motor goes like a raped ape and all tuned on the PV, which took substantial changes from last year.
Long story short, If you have true knock, you should see some other signs of things going south if it is being caused by something other than bad gas. If you have those signs heed them. If you have no audible, plugs look good, you may have to ignore what you are seeing.
I personally after last years experience would put the 20deg back into it, and mess heavily with the fuel table to see what effect that is having on the knock. Basically try a 14.6 map and then try a 13.2 map..... And I would start by trying to find the best gas you can get, and use only that until you get it tuned. After the rebuild this winter and all the tuning, 99% I have no knocks at all, the only exception is when I get bad gas, which has only happened once this summer. These were not audible, would only happen in 6th on a incline and they were just blips on the screen (1's and 2's), next tank they were gone.
Hope that helps.
KC
Sounds like you the "phantom" knocks that some get with the PV. Retarding 20 degrees is A LOT!. If that is not taking care of the problem, I would say that is not the problem if there is even a problem. When retarding the timing that much you should be able to feel a loss in power 'sluggish'? One other thing to think about, you should actually be retarding at about 28deg. because I think when the ECU senses a knock it will retard automatically and this is in addition to the 20 you have put in there. (I am not for sure on the 8deg. but I know it retards upon knock events)I have down loaded a basic tune from the Dynojet site and have the timing tables back where they were, Since I have auto tuned 4 times. Modifying the new auto tune each time.
The concerning part is the it happens at a certain temperature. Which fits the real knock profile.
1. Can you actually hear it knocking? I can not hear it unless the engine gets extremely hot then it pings like crazy. But with the original Knock count, no I can not hear it. (highway speeds, normal temps) It sounds like ball bearings in the cylinder boars, or like plates breaking, there is no mistake if it is audible.
2. Have you checked your plugs? I know many on here will tell you, you can't tell anything with plugs on these new technology motors. I would beg to differ. Your plugs should be nice and "marshmellow'ie" and or new looking. Do the insulators have little silver ***** on them, (almost likes like little flakes of sand, sign of true knocking, the ***** are aluminium from the combustion chamber). I had another member mention plugs I will be pulling mine tomorrow to take a look. This is looking more and more like the culprit.
If your plugs are pretty, and you don't actually hear any knocking physically, you may not have issues at all, or may be a bad gas issue. Have you tried getting some "white" pump gas, or even some fresh gas from a Racing outlet?
I don't think this is a fuel problem just for the simple fact I can't get bad gas at every single gas station I go to. I can understand this being the issue if this was a once in a while occurrence
I had the same issue as you last year... (not to freak you out) but my issue was a real one, but there were many more indicators that things were not right.
Once my temps got to 235 I would get knocking events. If the temps got over 280 the knocking was so bad I thought the bike was going to come part.Mine rattles like crazy when the temps get this high. 280+ The signs I had were I had a black plug that would not clean up (it was the reason that I got the PV in the first place).. When I would run a tuning session, the rear cylinder would always change on the tune (I use the log tuner not auto)... So basically I would run a log session, log tuner would make changes, run another log session and log tuner would change it back to where it was before. Very frustrating and confusing. I tried everything, retard on timing per heat table, leaned out, richened it up, etc. etc.
Turned out my issue was with a bad rebuild. The rear cylinder was fitted with wrong size of oil sweeper rings. This last winter I pulled the whole thing apart and hand delivered everything to Baisleys (I am in the Portland area) where Ryan, Dan and I spent an hour looking at everything trying to figure out what the F was wrong. Dan finally noticed that the sweeper rings were the wrong size. The fix was turning the jugs 10over, new pistons,,,, the correct rings etc. NOTE the guys at Baisleys are top notch people and know there sheet. New rebuilt motor goes like a raped ape and all tuned on the PV, which took substantial changes from last year.
Long story short, If you have true knock, you should see some other signs of things going south if it is being caused by something other than bad gas. If you have those signs heed them. If you have no audible, plugs look good, you may have to ignore what you are seeing.
I personally after last years experience would put the 20deg back into it, and mess heavily with the fuel table to see what effect that is having on the knock. Basically try a 14.6 map and then try a 13.2 map..... And I would start by trying to find the best gas you can get, and use only that until you get it tuned. After the rebuild this winter and all the tuning, 99% I have no knocks at all, the only exception is when I get bad gas, which has only happened once this summer. These were not audible, would only happen in 6th on a incline and they were just blips on the screen (1's and 2's), next tank they were gone.
Hope that helps.
KC
Thanks so much for the reply. I will defiantly post what results I have. I know someone else is going to have the same issue at some point.
Road Warrior
Joined: May 2013
Posts: 1,430
Likes: 55
From: Florida
Got my power vision a few weeks ago and have been reading this thread since before then. I recently did some mods to my 2012 RKC. Fuel Moto 2/1/2 head pipe, Wood 222 cams, Rush mufflers and S&S stealth a/c.
Got my VE's dialed in less than 5 percent and am trying to monitor for spark knock in log tuner. My problem is when data logging, spark hit count shows all zeroes. I remember reading some people having this issue after updating software and dynaulv posted on page 549 using notepad to change what log tuner expects to find in the pvv file.
I've looked at notepad and my VE shows"'VE (MAP based/Front Cyl)" and the same on the rear cylinder.
My question is, do I need to use notepad to change my pvv file to "'VE (Front Cyl)" and do the same thing for the rear cylinder as well?
Should changing this then show spark hit count in log tuner?
Got my VE's dialed in less than 5 percent and am trying to monitor for spark knock in log tuner. My problem is when data logging, spark hit count shows all zeroes. I remember reading some people having this issue after updating software and dynaulv posted on page 549 using notepad to change what log tuner expects to find in the pvv file.
I've looked at notepad and my VE shows"'VE (MAP based/Front Cyl)" and the same on the rear cylinder.
My question is, do I need to use notepad to change my pvv file to "'VE (Front Cyl)" and do the same thing for the rear cylinder as well?
Should changing this then show spark hit count in log tuner?
Road Warrior
Joined: Jul 2012
Posts: 1,566
Likes: 55
From: Londonderry, NH
I have a 2014 Breakout, and put the PV on it this spring. Have a pretty good map built, and have been playing with the "gauges" layout, and have a question. I would like to display the gear I'm in on the PV, but when I select this function, it is always blank, like it is not receiving the data, just for the "Gear" box. Anyone else encounter this or know of a fix?
Cruiser
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 113
Likes: 4
From: Here
Hey all - Sorry if this is answered within this posting already, but I've already spent days digging through from the beginning without finding what I'm looking for - I get that the VE and AFR tables are related, but if you adjust one, do you have to adjust another, or will the other self-adjust? IE - I have a '14 CVO Softail Deluxe with a 110 motor. I took the stock pipes off as well as the SE AC and replace them with VH True Duals and a DK AC with a K&N filter. I have the PV2 on there with the MAP Jamie gave me and ran two auto tune basic rides of about 45 minutes to an hour each and the bike still runs, according to the PV Engine Temp gauge, around 290 to 300 degrees. When I'm cruising it easily stays in the high 280's low 290's. Come to a stop and it runs right up into the high 290's low 300's. And this is with ambient of about high 80's. So, I'm thinking I'm running too lean still. I'm in Colorado Springs, about 6000 feet. I spoke with the guys at the Harley shop and they suggested changing the AFR as a trial. Right now, it was at 14.4 in the 35 to 70 KPa and 750 to 3000 RPM range. I've changed all that to 13.9 without changing anything in the VE tables as I'm so lost when I look at those.
I need some help - Like break it down Barney style help. I can tune carbs no problem, this is my first attempt at dealing with EFI. I plan on continuing to dig through this posting, but I'm on a small time crunch as I'm about to take this bike on a 1200 mile (2400 round trip) in the next week and I don't want to burn it up (will be spending time traveling through Nevada).
Any advice, point me to threads, etc would be greatly appreciated.
Thanks guys
I need some help - Like break it down Barney style help. I can tune carbs no problem, this is my first attempt at dealing with EFI. I plan on continuing to dig through this posting, but I'm on a small time crunch as I'm about to take this bike on a 1200 mile (2400 round trip) in the next week and I don't want to burn it up (will be spending time traveling through Nevada).
Any advice, point me to threads, etc would be greatly appreciated.
Thanks guys
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Road Warrior
Joined: May 2013
Posts: 1,430
Likes: 55
From: Florida
I need some help - Like break it down Barney style help. I can tune carbs no problem, this is my first attempt at dealing with EFI. I plan on continuing to dig through this posting, but I'm on a small time crunch as I'm about to take this bike on a 1200 mile (2400 round trip) in the next week and I don't want to burn it up (will be spending time traveling through Nevada).
Any advice, point me to threads, etc would be greatly appreciated.
Thanks guys
Novice
Joined: Jan 2013
Posts: 15
Likes: 1
From: Utah
fcheshir,
Sounds like you the "phantom" knocks that some get with the PV. Retarding 20 degrees is A LOT!. If that is not taking care of the problem, I would say that is not the problem if there is even a problem. When retarding the timing that much you should be able to feel a loss in power 'sluggish'? One other thing to think about, you should actually be retarding at about 28deg. because I think when the ECU senses a knock it will retard automatically and this is in addition to the 20 you have put in there. (I am not for sure on the 8deg. but I know it retards upon knock events)
The concerning part is the it happens at a certain temperature. Which fits the real knock profile.
1. Can you actually hear it knocking? It sounds like ball bearings in the cylinder boars, or like plates breaking, there is no mistake if it is audible.
2. Have you checked your plugs? I know many on here will tell you, you can't tell anything with plugs on these new technology motors. I would beg to differ. Your plugs should be nice and "marshmellow'ie" and or new looking. Do the insulators have little silver ***** on them, (almost likes like little flakes of sand, sign of true knocking, the ***** are aluminium from the combustion chamber).
If your plugs are pretty, and you don't actually hear any knocking physically, you may not have issues at all, or may be a bad gas issue. Have you tried getting some "white" pump gas, or even some fresh gas from a Racing outlet?
I had the same issue as you last year... (not to freak you out) but my issue was a real one, but there were many more indicators that things were not right.
Once my temps got to 235 I would get knocking events. If the temps got over 280 the knocking was so bad I thought the bike was going to come part. The signs I had were I had a black plug that would not clean up (it was the reason that I got the PV in the first place).. When I would run a tuning session, the rear cylinder would always change on the tune (I use the log tuner not auto)... So basically I would run a log session, log tuner would make changes, run another log session and log tuner would change it back to where it was before. Very frustrating and confusing. I tried everything, retard on timing per heat table, leaned out, richened it up, etc. etc.
Turned out my issue was with a bad rebuild. The rear cylinder was fitted with wrong size of oil sweeper rings. This last winter I pulled the whole thing apart and hand delivered everything to Baisleys (I am in the Portland area) where Ryan, Dan and I spent an hour looking at everything trying to figure out what the F was wrong. Dan finally noticed that the sweeper rings were the wrong size. The fix was turning the jugs 10over, new pistons,,,, the correct rings etc. NOTE the guys at Baisleys are top notch people and know there sheet. New rebuilt motor goes like a raped ape and all tuned on the PV, which took substantial changes from last year.
Long story short, If you have true knock, you should see some other signs of things going south if it is being caused by something other than bad gas. If you have those signs heed them. If you have no audible, plugs look good, you may have to ignore what you are seeing.
I personally after last years experience would put the 20deg back into it, and mess heavily with the fuel table to see what effect that is having on the knock. Basically try a 14.6 map and then try a 13.2 map..... And I would start by trying to find the best gas you can get, and use only that until you get it tuned. After the rebuild this winter and all the tuning, 99% I have no knocks at all, the only exception is when I get bad gas, which has only happened once this summer. These were not audible, would only happen in 6th on a incline and they were just blips on the screen (1's and 2's), next tank they were gone.
Hope that helps.
KC
Sounds like you the "phantom" knocks that some get with the PV. Retarding 20 degrees is A LOT!. If that is not taking care of the problem, I would say that is not the problem if there is even a problem. When retarding the timing that much you should be able to feel a loss in power 'sluggish'? One other thing to think about, you should actually be retarding at about 28deg. because I think when the ECU senses a knock it will retard automatically and this is in addition to the 20 you have put in there. (I am not for sure on the 8deg. but I know it retards upon knock events)
The concerning part is the it happens at a certain temperature. Which fits the real knock profile.
1. Can you actually hear it knocking? It sounds like ball bearings in the cylinder boars, or like plates breaking, there is no mistake if it is audible.
2. Have you checked your plugs? I know many on here will tell you, you can't tell anything with plugs on these new technology motors. I would beg to differ. Your plugs should be nice and "marshmellow'ie" and or new looking. Do the insulators have little silver ***** on them, (almost likes like little flakes of sand, sign of true knocking, the ***** are aluminium from the combustion chamber).
If your plugs are pretty, and you don't actually hear any knocking physically, you may not have issues at all, or may be a bad gas issue. Have you tried getting some "white" pump gas, or even some fresh gas from a Racing outlet?
I had the same issue as you last year... (not to freak you out) but my issue was a real one, but there were many more indicators that things were not right.
Once my temps got to 235 I would get knocking events. If the temps got over 280 the knocking was so bad I thought the bike was going to come part. The signs I had were I had a black plug that would not clean up (it was the reason that I got the PV in the first place).. When I would run a tuning session, the rear cylinder would always change on the tune (I use the log tuner not auto)... So basically I would run a log session, log tuner would make changes, run another log session and log tuner would change it back to where it was before. Very frustrating and confusing. I tried everything, retard on timing per heat table, leaned out, richened it up, etc. etc.
Turned out my issue was with a bad rebuild. The rear cylinder was fitted with wrong size of oil sweeper rings. This last winter I pulled the whole thing apart and hand delivered everything to Baisleys (I am in the Portland area) where Ryan, Dan and I spent an hour looking at everything trying to figure out what the F was wrong. Dan finally noticed that the sweeper rings were the wrong size. The fix was turning the jugs 10over, new pistons,,,, the correct rings etc. NOTE the guys at Baisleys are top notch people and know there sheet. New rebuilt motor goes like a raped ape and all tuned on the PV, which took substantial changes from last year.
Long story short, If you have true knock, you should see some other signs of things going south if it is being caused by something other than bad gas. If you have those signs heed them. If you have no audible, plugs look good, you may have to ignore what you are seeing.
I personally after last years experience would put the 20deg back into it, and mess heavily with the fuel table to see what effect that is having on the knock. Basically try a 14.6 map and then try a 13.2 map..... And I would start by trying to find the best gas you can get, and use only that until you get it tuned. After the rebuild this winter and all the tuning, 99% I have no knocks at all, the only exception is when I get bad gas, which has only happened once this summer. These were not audible, would only happen in 6th on a incline and they were just blips on the screen (1's and 2's), next tank they were gone.
Hope that helps.
KC
Swapped out the plugs fixed the problem. Thank you all!
