Power Vision Information Thread
Road Warrior
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 1,549
Likes: 18
From: Upstate SC
So....why do we need a converted tune for two products coming from the same company? Delphi can already read the voltages. I'm just curious why a handful years ago the PV was so great at 14.6 and now folks need to outlay another 4 bills to tune the areas they could never reach with the PV? I' mean lets be real, just for a moment. Read years of threads of folks saying they can't collect data in the far reaching areas. The response was...don't worry about it, you don't ride there anyway". Now all of a sudden they can reach these areas? Come on now. You been around around long enough right? If someone couldn't hit these areas with PV, be it 1 or 2, why do they need Target Tune? I await your response......
So....why do we need a converted tune for two products coming from the same company? Delphi can already read the voltages. I'm just curious why a handful years ago the PV was so great at 14.6 and now folks need to outlay another 4 bills to tune the areas they could never reach with the PV? I' mean lets be real, just for a moment. Read years of threads of folks saying they can't collect data in the far reaching areas. The response was...don't worry about it, you don't ride there anyway". Now all of a sudden they can reach these areas? Come on now. You been around around long enough right? If someone couldn't hit these areas with PV, be it 1 or 2, why do they need Target Tune? I await your response......
__________________
Jamie Long / Fuel Moto USA
The USA's Leader V-Twin EFI & Performance www.fuelmotousa.com
Contact 920-423-3309
Email jamie@fuelmotousa.com
Jamie Long / Fuel Moto USA
The USA's Leader V-Twin EFI & Performance www.fuelmotousa.com
Contact 920-423-3309
Email jamie@fuelmotousa.com
Last edited by fuelmoto; Aug 24, 2015 at 11:10 AM.
6th Gear
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 13
Likes: 0
Fairly new to the PV but a good deal of past experience with TTS. What is the best way to tune the spark timing? In TTS I could do data runs and see everything available. Is there a way to do the same with PV? I think I can datalog a few channels, but not sure if I can get more or set up a template for repeatable logs.
Also should I be looking at spark timing with a test flat 14.6 afr like TTS or leave my current tune for timing? I would like to increase timing in a few rough spots and watch logs for auto knock timing retard. So I can get closer to correct.
Part of my issue or concern is I installed the HD 113 kit and dynojet does not have a base tune for that kit so I started from the CVO 110 and adjusted displacement. I'm sure the cams are differnt but can't find a good starter for the 113 with the se266e cams. It's running pretty good but have a bad cough at about 1500-1750rpm. Auto tune tries to lean it out and that makes it worse. Read the spark is probably too retarded and unburned fuel causing sensor to think rich. Advanced some timing in quick tune and it seems to be a bit better but plug strap looks like it's plenty advanced, just can't tell at what conditions.
Any suggestions or advice from those that have been here a while?
Any input is appreciated. This is a great learning site for PV. A bit surprised dynojet doesn't update guides like TTS does. The latest available was in 2012. Seem to be a bit behind but I sure like not dragging the laptop along.
Brian
Also should I be looking at spark timing with a test flat 14.6 afr like TTS or leave my current tune for timing? I would like to increase timing in a few rough spots and watch logs for auto knock timing retard. So I can get closer to correct.
Part of my issue or concern is I installed the HD 113 kit and dynojet does not have a base tune for that kit so I started from the CVO 110 and adjusted displacement. I'm sure the cams are differnt but can't find a good starter for the 113 with the se266e cams. It's running pretty good but have a bad cough at about 1500-1750rpm. Auto tune tries to lean it out and that makes it worse. Read the spark is probably too retarded and unburned fuel causing sensor to think rich. Advanced some timing in quick tune and it seems to be a bit better but plug strap looks like it's plenty advanced, just can't tell at what conditions.
Any suggestions or advice from those that have been here a while?
Any input is appreciated. This is a great learning site for PV. A bit surprised dynojet doesn't update guides like TTS does. The latest available was in 2012. Seem to be a bit behind but I sure like not dragging the laptop along.
Brian
Road Captain
Joined: Nov 2012
Posts: 569
Likes: 0
From: USA
I did not say ignore the VE's, I noted not to use Auto Tune for tuning the decel area as it is obvious from the VE tables this user posted there is a reversion issue that is being over corrected, significantly. In most cases the decel area could be considered volatile from a closed loop standpoint; there is reversion, various strategies related to decel fuel cut, and many other variables that are not closed loop friendly. When developing calibrations in most cases once VE is established for the cruise and low RPM regions of the VE tables we start with extending/blending the areas to the left, and then attend to any decel related issues from there.
You cannot simply plug in widebands to the ECM; because the hardware is changed, many aspect of the calibration need to be changed. Hardware wise the ECM needs to be able to interpret 0-5V from the wideband controller rather then 0-1V with factory O2's, then you have the heater circuits, how the integrator and AFF operate, and how all that data is handled. Essentially all of the closed loop related tables running in the background of the calibration are changed to allow closed loop with the widebands. As far as data collection, because we can now capture AF data from a much broader range (10.0-17.0 AFR rather than 14.4-15.0) we can use the widebands for the higher RPM and higher load areas. We have never preached using narrowband tuning for high RPM high load areas, it is simply a limitation of the stock ECM and factory O2 sensors.
You cannot simply plug in widebands to the ECM; because the hardware is changed, many aspect of the calibration need to be changed. Hardware wise the ECM needs to be able to interpret 0-5V from the wideband controller rather then 0-1V with factory O2's, then you have the heater circuits, how the integrator and AFF operate, and how all that data is handled. Essentially all of the closed loop related tables running in the background of the calibration are changed to allow closed loop with the widebands. As far as data collection, because we can now capture AF data from a much broader range (10.0-17.0 AFR rather than 14.4-15.0) we can use the widebands for the higher RPM and higher load areas. We have never preached using narrowband tuning for high RPM high load areas, it is simply a limitation of the stock ECM and factory O2 sensors.
Road Captain
Joined: Nov 2012
Posts: 569
Likes: 0
From: USA
Fairly new to the PV but a good deal of past experience with TTS. What is the best way to tune the spark timing? In TTS I could do data runs and see everything available. Is there a way to do the same with PV? I think I can datalog a few channels, but not sure if I can get more or set up a template for repeatable logs.
Also should I be looking at spark timing with a test flat 14.6 afr like TTS or leave my current tune for timing? I would like to increase timing in a few rough spots and watch logs for auto knock timing retard. So I can get closer to correct.
Part of my issue or concern is I installed the HD 113 kit and dynojet does not have a base tune for that kit so I started from the CVO 110 and adjusted displacement. I'm sure the cams are differnt but can't find a good starter for the 113 with the se266e cams. It's running pretty good but have a bad cough at about 1500-1750rpm. Auto tune tries to lean it out and that makes it worse. Read the spark is probably too retarded and unburned fuel causing sensor to think rich. Advanced some timing in quick tune and it seems to be a bit better but plug strap looks like it's plenty advanced, just can't tell at what conditions.
Any suggestions or advice from those that have been here a while?
Any input is appreciated. This is a great learning site for PV. A bit surprised dynojet doesn't update guides like TTS does. The latest available was in 2012. Seem to be a bit behind but I sure like not dragging the laptop along.
Brian
Also should I be looking at spark timing with a test flat 14.6 afr like TTS or leave my current tune for timing? I would like to increase timing in a few rough spots and watch logs for auto knock timing retard. So I can get closer to correct.
Part of my issue or concern is I installed the HD 113 kit and dynojet does not have a base tune for that kit so I started from the CVO 110 and adjusted displacement. I'm sure the cams are differnt but can't find a good starter for the 113 with the se266e cams. It's running pretty good but have a bad cough at about 1500-1750rpm. Auto tune tries to lean it out and that makes it worse. Read the spark is probably too retarded and unburned fuel causing sensor to think rich. Advanced some timing in quick tune and it seems to be a bit better but plug strap looks like it's plenty advanced, just can't tell at what conditions.
Any suggestions or advice from those that have been here a while?
Any input is appreciated. This is a great learning site for PV. A bit surprised dynojet doesn't update guides like TTS does. The latest available was in 2012. Seem to be a bit behind but I sure like not dragging the laptop along.
Brian
Stellar HDF Member
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 2,928
Likes: 117
From: Ashby, Ma
Fairly new to the PV but a good deal of past experience with TTS. What is the best way to tune the spark timing? In TTS I could do data runs and see everything available. Is there a way to do the same with PV? I think I can datalog a few channels, but not sure if I can get more or set up a template for repeatable logs.
Also should I be looking at spark timing with a test flat 14.6 afr like TTS or leave my current tune for timing? I would like to increase timing in a few rough spots and watch logs for auto knock timing retard. So I can get closer to correct.
Part of my issue or concern is I installed the HD 113 kit and dynojet does not have a base tune for that kit so I started from the CVO 110 and adjusted displacement. I'm sure the cams are differnt but can't find a good starter for the 113 with the se266e cams. It's running pretty good but have a bad cough at about 1500-1750rpm. Auto tune tries to lean it out and that makes it worse. Read the spark is probably too retarded and unburned fuel causing sensor to think rich. Advanced some timing in quick tune and it seems to be a bit better but plug strap looks like it's plenty advanced, just can't tell at what conditions.
Any suggestions or advice from those that have been here a while?
Any input is appreciated. This is a great learning site for PV. A bit surprised dynojet doesn't update guides like TTS does. The latest available was in 2012. Seem to be a bit behind but I sure like not dragging the laptop along.
Brian
Also should I be looking at spark timing with a test flat 14.6 afr like TTS or leave my current tune for timing? I would like to increase timing in a few rough spots and watch logs for auto knock timing retard. So I can get closer to correct.
Part of my issue or concern is I installed the HD 113 kit and dynojet does not have a base tune for that kit so I started from the CVO 110 and adjusted displacement. I'm sure the cams are differnt but can't find a good starter for the 113 with the se266e cams. It's running pretty good but have a bad cough at about 1500-1750rpm. Auto tune tries to lean it out and that makes it worse. Read the spark is probably too retarded and unburned fuel causing sensor to think rich. Advanced some timing in quick tune and it seems to be a bit better but plug strap looks like it's plenty advanced, just can't tell at what conditions.
Any suggestions or advice from those that have been here a while?
Any input is appreciated. This is a great learning site for PV. A bit surprised dynojet doesn't update guides like TTS does. The latest available was in 2012. Seem to be a bit behind but I sure like not dragging the laptop along.
Brian
There is also a older, but powerful seperate application that was used pre - Autotune technology being built into the PV called Log Tuner. I've heard this does not work on the new CAN bus bikes, but I'm not sure. It allowed you datalog and and identify spark knock events and from there you could retard timing manually for those cells or surrounding cells, or you could use a small calculater that the app provided to build new spark tables and import into your tune.
I'll try to help you find the more up to date apps that might help you.
The focus lately has been on this new Target Tune technology using wide band sensors and real time tuning. I'm not sure what this new technology might provide for timing.
Stellar HDF Member
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 2,928
Likes: 117
From: Ashby, Ma
Go here and read a bit about "myTune" software, which might be helpful.
https://www.hdforums.com/forum/ignit...l#post14110948
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Road Master
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 871
Likes: 7
From: Manchester, NH
My Tune works great and the price to register is worth the price. I also use it to spot check my VEs. I actually prefer the results over the PV. The amount is not significant but I noticed that my CLI and AFF are happier.
Fairly new to the PV but a good deal of past experience with TTS. What is the best way to tune the spark timing? In TTS I could do data runs and see everything available. Is there a way to do the same with PV? I think I can datalog a few channels, but not sure if I can get more or set up a template for repeatable logs.
Also should I be looking at spark timing with a test flat 14.6 afr like TTS or leave my current tune for timing? I would like to increase timing in a few rough spots and watch logs for auto knock timing retard. So I can get closer to correct.
Part of my issue or concern is I installed the HD 113 kit and dynojet does not have a base tune for that kit so I started from the CVO 110 and adjusted displacement. I'm sure the cams are differnt but can't find a good starter for the 113 with the se266e cams. It's running pretty good but have a bad cough at about 1500-1750rpm. Auto tune tries to lean it out and that makes it worse. Read the spark is probably too retarded and unburned fuel causing sensor to think rich. Advanced some timing in quick tune and it seems to be a bit better but plug strap looks like it's plenty advanced, just can't tell at what conditions.
Any suggestions or advice from those that have been here a while?
Any input is appreciated. This is a great learning site for PV. A bit surprised dynojet doesn't update guides like TTS does. The latest available was in 2012. Seem to be a bit behind but I sure like not dragging the laptop along.
Brian
Also should I be looking at spark timing with a test flat 14.6 afr like TTS or leave my current tune for timing? I would like to increase timing in a few rough spots and watch logs for auto knock timing retard. So I can get closer to correct.
Part of my issue or concern is I installed the HD 113 kit and dynojet does not have a base tune for that kit so I started from the CVO 110 and adjusted displacement. I'm sure the cams are differnt but can't find a good starter for the 113 with the se266e cams. It's running pretty good but have a bad cough at about 1500-1750rpm. Auto tune tries to lean it out and that makes it worse. Read the spark is probably too retarded and unburned fuel causing sensor to think rich. Advanced some timing in quick tune and it seems to be a bit better but plug strap looks like it's plenty advanced, just can't tell at what conditions.
Any suggestions or advice from those that have been here a while?
Any input is appreciated. This is a great learning site for PV. A bit surprised dynojet doesn't update guides like TTS does. The latest available was in 2012. Seem to be a bit behind but I sure like not dragging the laptop along.
Brian